Discussion in 'The Bench' started by toymobile, Jun 9, 2018.
Lot's of young folks are opting out of a college education and going straight into the work force so they can avoid the student loan debt problem.
Someone is going to be needed to repair all the trucks used to haul the import JUNK to the store, not everybody can be a DR. or lawyer. The sooner the younger folks wake up to that the better.
I went to a community college for 3 years, then job the work force. I didn’t see a need to go to a major university to be just a number. Plus it didn’t take long to pay off my student loans
Kids these days (damn I sound old) don't want to be doctors or lawyers. They want to be famous. At least the majority do. What a rude awakening they have they have in their future.
Something I've been contemplating lately is the unforseen cost of not entering the workforce till late 20's. It used to be that by 18-20 you had a job probably starting a family. A used car and buying a home. Also start contributions towards YOUR retirement, not just social security. Now there is a tremendous gap of building wealth and equity by waiting another 10 years to start all that while accumulating debt and living on credit. What's gonna happen when this generation is at retirement ?
The day I received my college diploma I also received a $5,000 per year raise. This was a long time ago, but my college cost about $40,000. It was a good investment. Depending on where you go, a college education can cost anywhere from about $40,000 to $300,000. The average college graduate earns about $1,000,000 more in his/her lifetime then a non-graduate. I guess it's up to the individual to decide whether it's worth it or not. I made my decision and for me it was the right one.
The general rule of thumb for life was that you should make your AGE in THOUSANDS per year. I retired (officially) at 50 @ about 75K+ with O.T. and felt comfy at that level. Several years in the interim were at 100K+ with the O.T. Crack Arnolds' aint ever gonna match that. Our pensions' were based on a best 5 years average. ws
But take the same $40-$300k spent over 4 years and instead of writing checks to the college, put it in a 401k over the same 4 years and an 18 year old is going to retire well ahead of the current college grad.
Being a trade school graduate is WAY more affordable than those useless entry level college degrees which is basically all the crap we ALREADY learned in fricken high fricken school! What a waste of time, to graduate high school then have to do the same crap again BEFORE you choose a major! What a scam!
And guess what, tradesmen can make as much or more than a typical college grad over a life time with schooling loans only taking less than 3 years to pay off! So those tradesmen can make the extra $million over a lifetime PLUS they don't have a loan payment for decades to pay and PLUS PLUS, they start making that money while those college kids are still in school for at least another 3 years.
The country is in need of tradesmen, the bigger the need the higher the pay. Anyone with a youngster that is mechanically inclined that doesn't care so much for school the trades may be something a parent can nudge them too?
Not a bad life, the $$ are decent, an old Toolmaker I use to work with said it best when he was telling me about this college guy that lived next door to that couldn't do anything for himself. The college guy was a douche, he had the attitude that he was better than anyone that didn't have a college degree and would tell him that. Here is what he told me, what he told him when the guy was complaining about how much the brake job for his car cost and how expensive the new roof he had put on cost and so on. And good thing he had a college degree that got him a good job so he could pay for all that;
"Not only do I make more money than you, I keep more money than you because I know how to change my own brakes, tune up my car myself, change the oil myself. If my house needs a new roof I can do that or fix any plumbing issues myself. Its a good thing you have that college degree to make you better than me because I would rather have the extra money to do what I want with it!"
I spent 25 full-time years as a tradesman, and 23 as a college-educated professional. I made a hell of a lot more money as a professional, and received a real pension as well. As a tradesman I got Social Security. Trust me - you cannot live on Social Security benefits; actually Social Security was never intended as a full retirement income ; it was intended to keep you from starving. If you are going to be a tradesperson ( and as I was a vocational teacher, you don't have to try to convince me of the benefits of a good vocational education) you had damn well start putting money away for retirement early, very early - 35 is wayy too late. College - a good one anyway - doesn't teach you all the stuff you already learned in high school. I don't think that I had even one course that duplicated stuff that I had taken in high school. College teaches you a different (in most cases) way of thinking and approaching problems. If you are already really smart you can do fine as a vocational school graduate - two of my students were millionaires before they were 40 and neither got any money from their family. Both were brilliant. and could have attended any college that they chose.
Wow John, sorry to hear you wasted 25 years at the wrong company and or the wrong trade, and not earning a pension from that company. I wouldn't recommend being in the mechanic trade, seems like most of those guys get screwed.(not sure what your trade was?) I'm glad that your college degree improved your life.
I wasn't making doctor or lawyer money but my brother the boss of train driving(engineering) of a small company wasn't happy when he found out that I was making more than him yearly while accumulating a pension. They do have those 401k plans at the smaller shops now and someone smart would start a Roth IRA that works for a smaller company that doesn't have a pension plan. Most companies are trying to move away from pensions nowadays anyway so trying to get a pension job will be hard to find these days.
Learning the construction trades like plumbing, HVAC, carpenter, one would have the opportunity to start their own company as well. The HVAC trade over here right now there is a huge shortage for those guys, that school is only 10 months to complete and those guys make a pretty good living even the ones that work for someone because of the shortage of those guys.
The metal trades have shortages as well, like Toolmakers, Tool & Die makers, Machinists, Machine Repair that the big 3 car companies are in need of. A guy I use to work with at a company that is doing 12 hours a day seven days on with seven days off has been working the seven days that he is suppose to have off so seven days a week with none off, that suppose to be off week is ALL over time! He's making over $200K a year working those hours!
College isn't for everyone and for them learning a trade is WAY better than a career in the fast food industry or retail or waiting to be famous.
Yeah, my brother took my advise and quit the small company, went to a larger one, he started out making more with less responsibility and now has moved up as the boss of train driving(engineering) there for the new building that is specializing in robotic welding.(it really bit him in the arse when he found out I was making more than him!) I can't say that now though.
By the way guess what, my brother never graduated from any college, he only took a couple college classes! He took drafting in high school and learned everything else on the job! He has a 401k plan that is WAY up there and a Roth that both should be double that by the time he retires, who needs a pension? I'm sure he'll max out on SS as well.
I don't disagree with anything that you say Derek, My point was that typically college is a good investment - not always. I knew a guy - his name was Morris T. ... (I'm not including his last name because you wouldn't believe it) who had a Master's degree with honors from Harvard . He wound up sorting mail in a post office. I have also heard of a guy who does not have an earned college degree who is the wealthiest man in the world -his name is Bill Gates. There is an old phrase that goes something like this "The contest does not always go to the strong, nor the race to the fleet of foot, but that's the way to bet". There are no guarantees, but if you can afford it, college is the way to go. FWIW: My brother Sandy was a vocational school graduate, started his own printing (now graphics) company, sold it and retired at 57 - the youngest of the four brothers of which I am one. The other three (including myself) are college graduates - one was a rocket scientist with a degree from MIT.
I have felt very fortunate to have the career I've been able to have with a 2-year associate degree in Injection Mold tool making from Vincennes University. Having this hands on trade has always helped be a quality product designer. I really enjoyed the hands on learning instead of being book smart. I was fortunate enough to have my employer pay for my Bachelor degree and highly recommend others to find a company to work for that will pay for your education.
On a side note, pay more than the minimum monthly payment against your student loans if at all possible.
Dunno, Really. I think anyone that sets his mind to better himself and takes the steps to do it is way ahead of the average egg head. I'm a high school drop out. ex drug addict/dealer. 3x convicted felon. Never had a "job" working for anyone that paid any more than what it took to just scrape by week to week. Id see the $'s my boss's was making off my hard work and it sort of pissed me off. Right out of jail I landed a job painting houses. stuck with it a yr. learned the ropes, got fired. Dont remember why was long time ago. Said screw it and started my own business. within a month I was hiring the guy that fired me as a sub. Stuck with it until I got really fed up with painting. Did handy man stuff for awhile, Got a job as a Maint. guy at a large apt community. Learned the basics in a few trades. Got my feet wet in a/c. Later got a job with a A/C company. started as a green helper, learned the ropes for 5 yrs. 13 yrs ago got state licensed as a A/C contractor and the rest is history. make north of 100K a yr. No trade schools, no college. However the retirement thing really has me worried. I didnt start saving until 50. Have to put 500 a month away until Im 72 to have a marginally decent bank roll to get me through the rest of my days.
Everybody is different. I think one of the worse things that ever happened in the country was this huge push saying that everybody had to have a college degree if you were going to amount to anything. Kids who would have been better off learning a trade were now taking out student loans to go to college. And when they flunked out, they still had the loans to pay back and no job to earn the money to pay back the loans. Or they spent their time in college getting nearly worthless degrees with no decent job opportunities now that they have graduated.
Briz, with your skill set you should start another business with some rental properties. That $500 a month plus the rent collected to pay off a rental property mortgage that will earn equity would be about 5 years or so depending on the amount of the loan. The paid off properties would be a nice little(maybe big see below) nest egg.
After that one is paid for, buy another one and use the rent from both to pay off the mortgage on the new one, should take 1/2 the time. After that one is paid for you could keep going and get 2 more, the rent from the 2 paid for ones plus the rent from the new ones would pay off the 2 mortgages as fast as the second rental, and so on and so on.....! Until you have enough to buy a hotel(or an apartment building) I wrote hotel because of that game that has Park Place, most people know what game I'm talking about.(works in real life too!)
Using the cash from the rental properties to pay a mortgage on the other properties within that business I think will have some tax deductions because you're not making a "profit" plus the maintenance costs IIRC are deductible. The business you have now can charge the new business for all the maintenance requirements.
Before leaving StPete we had 30 units. 10 unit building, 15 unit building, a duplex and a triplex. I know the rental game and if I now lived in a more metro area Id do it again. Living out here in the land of 500.00 a month trashed out double wide trailers is not really concussive to making positive income. I got my Ebay thing going and most months I make that 500.00 goal selling stickers.
I hope that there isn't to much banjo music heard in the distance where you are!
Amen to the above + my observation that government guaranteed student loans have had a terrible result on the cost of going to college. Easy money = increased tuition = huge student loan debt. I went to college and actually paid every nickel of my education costs working part-time at the same time. Hard to imagine anyone doing the same today.
Ah... the good old days