You know the funny thing? I drove my Buick home tonight. In the driveway and garage sit a 1993 Camry XLE, and a 1994 Tercel....sitting there under car covers!:eek2: Still love my Buick! Nothing comes close to the feeling of being behind the wheel of that car. It's just the world we live in I guess, hey?
The engine thing surprises me. Toyota's reaction doesn't. As was stated above, they are making it right, not covering it up like GM would. However, I have to admit I was wrong about the timing belt. So, you found an example. BFD! Should we start making a chart of known design issues comparing GM and toyota and see who comes out ahead? I know where my money is.
Rearding the Intrepid....... he he....... I just can't stop moaning about it. The last thing that went on it was an axle; this was about a month ago. I think the transmission is the most interesting part of the car. It has been rebuilt twice, the last time was about six months ago. It now doesn't want to engage the gear selected. If you shift it into drive or reverse, it just sits there, until it's been warmed up a bit. Luckily the Aamco shop that did the last rebuild has a one year warranty, so they'll have to look at as soon as she can't stand it any more.... Regarding GM, I haven't had too much experience with them, but the little I've had, hasn't been impresive. I took of the seering wheel of the Buick, and then I couldn't get it back on. It was a spring mounted in there, which was just impossible to get back in and compress. At the same time this happens, the car decides not to start any more. So we have it towed to a GM dealer, for them to get everything right again. The owner/manager? of the place drives both a mint conv GTO and a mint SS Camaro conv. stage 1. Both from the late sixties. So he's well excited to see my old car being hauled in there. He says most of the service people who works there have old cars, so they'll now how to clean up this one. I think great, it seems like we're on the same wavelength here. I'm told someone will contact me tomorrow with a quote. No call, I call them. ? -Tomorrow... No call, I call them. ? Tomorrow. No call, I call them. ? Tomorrow..... If they could just say, at the end of the week instead. But no. I'm at the same time a little bit worried, since the car wouldn't start, and everything, and how much it will be and so forth. I've been trying to speak to the mechanicker, who is supposed to fix it, but I only get to speak to a "tie", representative. Oh it will be tight, oh we'll fix it. Oh, everything will be so good.. BLA bla bla... So I go in there, to see if I can speak to the mechnicker. No, he's under some car three stories up, anything I can forward to him? ZZzz... I know that no matter what I say, it will stop right there. Next day I get a call, it is now Friday. The' car is ready. Great, I'm off, well excited. I ask how much? 273$ Ok, what can I do about it. I go to pay, and at the cashier I ask if they can break down the bill for me? Parts, labor, other? Oh,I'll have to call the "tie"... How much do you charge per hour I ask him? We don't doit like that, it is all in the computer. I know that it must have been pretty quick for them to get it back together again. What do you mean in the computer, I ask? Well, for this kind of job with the steering column, it's this amount. The parts were somthing like 47$ for a steering kit. So I ask what does this steering kit include? I knew they had to get a new spring, but what ever else was in there, was referred to as a few small pieces. I then ask him how ling did it take to get it back together? The car had apparently just started, so that was not to worry about. He says, we don't normally take old cars like this. I say, but you must have done something. Oh, we tightened some bolts, that holds the steering column, and we did that for free for you! Then he walked off, so I paid. I don't feel like going back there, it was just too much crap. Kimson
I find it interesting that the V6 Toyota engines are sludging up so soon. Wait till they are 10+ yrs old and running hotter due to inevitable radiator clogging. Was just demonstrating that even Toyota screws up....and yes they do seem to be taking care of the problem which is commendable. After all they can afford it....they grossed more than GM and Ford combined. May take a bit of careful shopping to find one of the better GM cars but they are out there. Have a nice day/////Bruce
Of course you're right- The Grand Ams are junk, and there are some good GM cars. The 3800 is a good motor. I guess I will be more careful what I buy next time. I didn't hear of all these problems before I bought the car. Sucks to be me!
Yeah, Carl....I guess we are just gluttons for punishment driving our GM junk. BTW my neighbor across the street raves about his 98 Camry, 160K and no problems (uses Mobil 1).....until yesterday when he took it in for ABS light on......$1800 to fix it (replace ABS master cyl)....not quite as enthusiastic now. I buy a car more for it's feel and performance anyway so GM junk is fine for me. I always buy used so maybe that's why I haven't had problems.....bugs worked out? Who knows.... Bruce
Patriotism is no excuse for stupidity. Well, maybe it is though. See the Iran thread for more info . We as Americans should expect more from a US product, not support (at best) mediocrity.
This discussion could go on forever and nothing will ever be settled. There has always been the foreign VS american debate and always will be. If you don't like someone elses opinion, you move on to other things instead of beating their opinions to death and downgrading them. One person isn't going to change the mind of someone who feels loyality to their car makers preference. It's a mute point. Buy what you feel is best for you personally and deal with the outcome. It's been said before....with the millions of cars sold in the United States yearly, there's always going to be someone to complain about something. Foreign or domestic. Personally I am a GM purist. I wouldn't ever buy anything other than GM. Does that make me stupid? Nope, apparently I've just been lucky all these years to buy the right GM cars and trucks. To each their own!
Whatever, Renee. It's obvious where you're coming from. Since I have the minority opinion on this board and have been beaten up for posting about my piece(s) of GM garbage, I feel obligated and justified in replying to these posts. The point was not to call anyone in particular stupid. It was to say that mentality- using patriotism to justify accepting an inferior product, is stupid. That's why manufacturing in this country is on it's way out. There are people who will do it cheaper and better overseas. That is the real crime, in my opinion. It's sad to see people still waving their flag and supporting this way of thinking because it's putting the final nail in the coffin, as far as the economy is concerned. Who is the real patriot- the one who sees things as they are and wants to do something about it, or the one that continues to support a corrupt and dying system because of their own personal gain? It's sickening!
Steve, I'm in the minority as well. After having my GM truck fall apart after buying it new, I am proud to drive my Toyota every day to work. New GM products are just garbage.
Personal gain??? Yes, I guess in terms of supporting the country I live in. You know GM is spending 6 million to start building Cadillacs in China, pretty sad I'd say. But that's what the world economy is driving them to. Hard to compete with cheap labor may as well join em. Bruce
No, personal gain as in some jerk with a high school degree gets payed $20 an hour to assemble little pieces parts or sweep the floor, and then expects his/her job to be there forever, even at the expense of the company he works for and our nation's economy. Supporting the country you live in, or supporting laziness? I guess it's all in the way you want to look at it. There are a lot of Americans building Toyotas and Hondas here.
My Regal was made in Canada not in US by lazy American workers.:laugh: .....like me wasting time on this board. Bruce
Steve, I'm in the minority as well. I have been beaten up here in past import threads myself for claiming that most Japanese cars are far superior in quality then the big three. Having worked on nothing but domestic and foreign late models for the past six years I have seen it all as far as quality. We in the professional side of car repair can give all the proof we have about quality till we're blue in the face. There is always going to be people that have a neighbor who has a friend that had to spend $1500 on a import car repair so domestics are WAY better. There's also those that feel buying a car from the big 3 is the patriotic thing to do regardless if it's inferior in every way. I personally can't see how driving a Dodge built in Mexico or a Chevy built in Canada is somehow more patriotic then driving a Toyota or Nissan that was built here in the states. BTW, as far as timing belts go, the 3.3 in my wife's Nissan Xterra has a belt change interval of 105,000 miles. A bit longer then 45k miles.
Allright brothers and sisters! Let's all get together and discuss this over, oh I don't know, about 1000 beers!:beer :beer :beer I'm calling it quits on this one. I know one thing we can agree on....we love our older GM Buicks! Now lets work on something more productive, like how I'm going to finance the resto on my Skylark. :Brow: :TU:
Come on.. lets beat that horse one more time! J/k. Back to Buicks. I don't have any problem with a heated debate, but I realize some people get genuinely offended by this stuff.
I find most of those who do what you do are usually agreeing with me on this... makes me feel a little better.
