Has anyone ever block filled a sbb 350?

In the preparation to fill a sbb 350 block I'm am asking if anyone has done this before and what they did to get the coolant to flow. The problem is that the water pump outlet is at the bottom of the cylinders so that doesn't leave much room to fill the block and still have the coolant flow!

Anyone have any ideas, I have a few but looking for others imagination to see if there is a better idea out there, thanks.





Derek

 

Dam up and/or scrape before fully hardening to get a path down to the water pump.
I suppose if you really fill high, some external lines to the side of the block could help. Not thinking you'll need that though.
You should be able to google pics from other makes to see how.
Maybe Speedtalk?

 

Not sure if other makes will help? The sbc for example when filling up to the water pump inlets that puts the fill about 1" from the deck surface. With the sbb filling to the bottom of the water pump inlets would only give about a 1/2" of fill on the bottom of the block!

Was contemplating to drill and tap a 1" NPT just below the deck's surface and drill and tap the same on the timing cover to plump the coolant flow externally, but was curious if anyone else has done this differently? Or a flattened copper pipe up the number 1 and 2 cylinders to get a path of coolant flow, or some expandable foam that would dissolve with gas to make a path for the coolant, but not sure if in I like the idea of not totally supporting those 2 cylinders with fill? I don't think the coolant would flow that good either with just a small path down from the front of the block either.






Derek

 

On a friend's 351 Cleveland he put 5/8 tubes aimed upwards and filled around them

 

Sonny seal filled his block... He was telling me that he had the machine work done AFTER the fill, but I know you know that anyways.

 

How well does his coolant flow that way? With the sbb the tubes would need to be flattened out to around .25" to .40", not much room going that route, perhaps the Cleveland has more real estate between the outer cylinder wall than the sbb? If not how well does the coolant flow? Is that a QM car only? If the Ford blocks are similar this is very helpful, thanks.

My plans are to fill to about 1 1/2" or so below the deck so it can still be street driven with an oil cooler.





Derek

 

Yes, getting ready for machine work, fill first.





Derek

 

I might try an eight inch long cylindrical balloon with some sort of release agent. Shove it up the waterpump port and inflate. Cap the core hole plugs with a pieces of acrylic, and fill from the deck surface.

 

I'm saying that if you look at several other makes and the creative methods we've had to use to do these, you'll see some good ideas.
You could melt out some foam with a torch or whatever.
You can work some of the fills as they stiffen up, before they fully solidify, by scraping or working a poker in there.
FYI for anyone filling after machine work, it tightens up the bore about .001" up to the fill line.
It's an easy fix if you need to do things that way.
Not sure what it does to the bottom end in every case, but the ones I've seen were built loose anyways.

 

done 2 of them. both my race motors are filled from freeze plug to top. use copper tubing on*ends of block cooling passages and bottom holes of block . cut tubes at 45 on bottom for water to flow and flush at top. use deck plate and head gasket with plastic to seal head surface . tork deck plate to spec then pore one side. after it cures repeat for other side.

did this 15 years ago. still using same blocks.

Dan

 

trying to remember tubing size. 1/2 I believe. Flatten the end tubes to fit down the end slots*of block. in middle use tubing that fits passages. I turn block upside down on engine stand and filled trough freeze plugs up to the freeze plug holes and water pump holes.

not sure how well this will work for the street. Water still cools the oil at bottom of bores.

Dan*

 

You race with a sbb 350? If so, what class do you race?


So you're saying that you filled your block by filling from the top down to the top of the freeze plugs with the block upside down?

If so, very interesting and creative way to fill a block! Pretty cool, thanks for sharing.

Although that may be good for a full time race car, I would like at least 1" of the top of the cylinder close to where the explosion happens to get some cooling up there, not just in the cylinder heads so street driving can be done with this build with the simple addition of an oil cooler.

Not sure a small passage from inserted flattened tubing or a balloon or any other way to just have that small area will be able to push enough volume of coolant up to the heads to cool them as good as I would like though? Even at 13-16 psi of pressure I still am not sure it would be enough flow volume? Also the more that is removed from that area the less support the 2 front cylinders will get. o No: And with that small volume of coolant from that area I'm afraid that the coolant won't flow to the back of the engine, it might just flow straight to the thermostat with very little flow to the rear of the engine overheating the back cylinders while the front ones run to cool? Perhaps I can do some creative redirecting of the flow to make sure it travels to the back of the block?

Well, the outside of the block option on the other hand looks like it would be able to flow more volume than the others, will have to drill my scrap block in that area to see if drilling and tapping is even an option? Or if there is even the clearance in that area for the outside plumbing? Still in the exploring the options phase so we have a bit of time.









Derek

 

He runs in the stock eliminator class running Mid 11s for the past 10 plus years.

 

i thought the sbb block didn't need any help?



just a friendly jab...

 

LOL, its all good.

This block will be bored .105" over, although sonic testing was very favorable its better to be safe than sorry when the plans call for boost.

Its also getting a jock strap like its big brother has to have when it pushes more than 650. Although the sbb doesn't need the jock strap at that level plans are for it to be able to handle more than 800 HP if the crank can? Again trying to err on the safe side.



Derek

 

So you're saying that you filled your block by filling from the top down to the top of the freeze plugs with the block upside down?



yes

turn block until head surface is down.

pore hard block in freeze plug holes up to bottom of the holes. When block is normal the fill is from top*down to top of freeze plug holes.

you can leave out front tubes to force water to go to back of heads.

you asked*if anyone has done this. this is the answer.

Dan

 

That's awesome what you've done and I appreciate your response, thank you.

This has the old hamster in my head running on its wheel. LOL Perhaps I can fill this way with some sort of a foam that can be burned out chemically or otherwise first. Then fill with the block fill so I have my 1" to1 1/2" of coolant at the top as well as the bottom this way allows. :Brow: This would be the best of both worlds that would cool the top of the block and heads and would cool the bottom of the crankcase where the oil gets cooled!! This would allow this to be filled while being able to run on the street without the oil overheating!!! :idea2: (Wile E. Coyote, super genius!)

Thanks Dan that info was truly a gift, I couldn't of came up with that idea without you! Thank you very much, and a Merry Christmas to you sir! So that fill hasn't moved after all these years of wheel stands then hard landings without jarring it loose?

Now all I need to figure out is the type of foam or other removable substance to fill with first. o No: I will let everyone know what I(we) come up with. :Brow: :TU:

Merry Christmas to all!!








Derek

 

if you could pore melted wax in first to 1/2 inch level then let cool to a solid before poring hard block. would have to have a heat plate to heat block / torque plate to melt the wax.

Dan

 

Wax, that is another great idea, thanks again Dan! :TU:

Dave has a block oven for cleaning blocks at his shop that would melt the wax out but not sure what kind of mess that would make with his oven. :eek2: LOL Perhaps we can melt most of it out before the oven with some rose bud torch heating on an engine stand then pour it out before the oven? o No:

As long as the fill doesn't move in the block after it sets this mod will be the envy of all the other brands! :Brow: I don't think this method would work on an engine with the water pump ports not at the bottom of the crankcase like the sbb 350 are!



Derek

 

We fill blocks for strength and to keep cylinder walls from distorting if you have that problem. You would only do that on a track motor. So the big question is, what don't you just use alcohol and never worry about water leaks again. With that said we are going to put water passages for track use only in all our BBB Billet heads. Need billet heads for track only use on the 350 Buick???