Thanks MrSony, ok thanks for the tip on the gasket set, I'll update my shopping list with that model and delete the valve cover gaskets from the list too. So basically can only get the lifters and pushrods from TA. - noted, thanks. (still waiting for their reply on international shipping) Springs... Ill measure mine this weekend. but then again, if I'm going to put a different cam than what is in there now, will it make any difference measuring the springs I have now? taking the engine out is really not an option, don't want to go that far. If I go as far as getting the engine out I'll park the truck up, forget about all this mess of parts and save up to fit a different running engine next year.
All it is a couple wires, and 8 bolts. And it's out. Be a lot easier to work on the motor outside the truck, plus it'll give you a chance to inspect it. Since you're buying the whole gasket kit, might as well use them. As well as that ford 460 rear main seal. Rope seals leak like a bitch almost no matter what. TA isn't open yet, it's 7am there now. If they don't answer the email in about 4 hours, give em a call. Their number is on the site. If putting the truck up is even an option, ditch the Buick 350 and put in a Chevy. I feel dirty saying that, but you'll have all the parts in the world to pick from if you do. Save the Buick to tinker on now and then, maybe find a 68-9 Skylark or something to that effect to stab it in. If taking the whole thing out is not an option, you can replace the rear main seal with the engine in the truck. Just harder. But if it's not leaking, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I've never dealt with a SBB in a truck, but those things had massive engine compartments. One more thing, on the off chance your headbolts are corroded or have any pitting, get new bolts or studs. They're cheap enough, reusable, and are available from summit. https://www.summitracing.com/search...y/buick-v8?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending Sorry if it seems like we're trying to make you restore the damn thing, but it's not like a Chevy. Can't just slap together and go.
Hahaha, yes I have found that, it's not a chevy and slap and go... therefore why I been considering waiting for a chevy engine. but... i'm so far deep into this investigation on parts that might be stupid going that way, and also means not using the truck for quite a few months plus probably spending more money to then fit the TH350 I have to the chevy engine. not sure if it bolts on straight to chevy or needs adaptor plates or something like that taking the engine out is actually not a problem, me and 3 friends rent a workshop where we keep the cars and have a 4 post lift, engine crane, etc... its just I dont want to go so far into it. I emailed TA 2 days ago, but still no answer. might give them a call later. all this would be so much easier if I can find a way of getting parts from TA. the shopping list now looks like this: I have updated the parts list with the gasket kit set you mentiona and removed the separate valve cover gaskets, seeing as you say the kit comes with it. If it doesnt when it gets here I'll just use the old ones, they seem to be ok anyway and there's no pressure there so should be alright. Crower 50257 260hdp level 2 - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cro-50257 Lifters Crower camsavers - Might have to use TA by the looks of it... http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1406 Timing chain - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/clo-c-3003k/overview/make/buick Springs - Still don't know which to use, although MrSony gave me 2 options.... Pushrods - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1419A Engine gasket kit - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/slp-260-1012/overview/make/buick Valley Pan gasket - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/fel-ms96006/overview/make/buick The only other thing is the oil pump parts, which I don't know if I need or not as don't have an oil pressure gauge, but for the price they cost and seeing as the engine is apart, might as well do it? and that will have to come from TA as well as the lifters and pushrods. hope I can find a way of shipping it here. does that list look alright now?
Pushrods for 68-69 have a 3/8 ball end and 5/16 tube. The wrong one can cause issues with rockers or lifters. And I stand by the level 3 cam choice. Degreed Advanced 4 would be better. With the 750 Holley carb and jetted properly it should have plenty of power. But would like a higher rpm torque converter as does even the stock cam. You may want to pull heads and confirm if you have the GS Pistons just to make sure before you order parts.
yeh.. torque converter is going to be another bunch of money, so not going that way as seeing as that, and other things would be required for level 3 cam, like machine head work, I'll have to go with level 2. just updated the earlier post, didnt realise I left as level 3 last night. I will pull the heads this weekend when I have some time to work on the engine again. knowing my luck half a piston will be chewed. lol
I don't know what you missed but no machine work is needed for that cam, just new springs since yours are worn out bending pushrods.
I'm going by what Gary Farmer said, if using the level 3 would need tighter springs and to accomodate those the heads need machining? So far my parts list is around 530 dollars.... dont think I can stretch for the torque converter, but I guess its one of those things if I need in the future I can always get it and fit later. Also what I don't know is which are these tighter springs and taller lifts...
Gary said stock springs set tighter as in with spring shims. You want to look at seat pressure or installed pressure. 110 is good. Yes converter can be done later. As can other external parts. Yes a lot goes into a good combination and this is a proven combination and simple. I would change front cam bearing if you change cam. It's important to oil pressure as this is the first place oil pressure goes to. Oil pump may be fine and not need to be pulled apart. Can be repaired on the engine. For new cam and lifters add something like this. https://m.summitracing.com/parts/cca-159 Get a pressure gauge.
It totally slipped my mind that it's a '69 engine with the different type of lifters/pushrods--doh. In this case, I'm not sure if you can get camsaver lifters with your current oiling design. You don't absolutely have to have those camsaver lifters, regular ones would do fine too. I'm just a bit biased towards trying to make something last as long as possible. So again, recheck my advice and information, because I'm not perfect. lol Yeah, Crower level 2 cam is suggested by Crower to use their single springs, which are around 100 closed and 230 open? Memory is fuzzy on this one and I haven't looked them up in a while. You can get better than stock pressures by setting the stock springs tighter, but some frown on this practice, while others say it's fine, so I dunno. When in doubt, go with what the manufacturer recommends. Getting a matched set of parts from one vendor/manufacturer ensures that (should anything go awry), your warranty is good.
The springs recommended for the Crower level 3 cam (not the level 2) calls for different springs as recommended by Crower, which are dual springs that require machining to your heads to get the inner spring to clear. These dual springs have stiffer (tighter) pressures and will accommodate higher lifts. TA sells tighter than stock springs (single springs) which require machining, but only if you use the damper. You can use just the spring itself (which would require no machining to your heads), but the damper helps to stabilize the valve train at higher RPMs. Also to note is that springs will have a 'nominal' pressure rating, but the actual PSI load on your cam lobes will vary depending on where the lifter is sitting (open, closed, and in-between along the ramp and nose sides), so while you can get a pretty accurate closed rating (depending on where you set the height), your open/partially open loads will be less than the 'advertised' open rating, unless your cam lift extends all the way up to where they rated it at. This is why the 'open' rating on the Crower level 2 cam only sits at 230ish lbs. with the lift on that cam--it would have more pressure if used with a cam with higher lifts. Stock replacement springs show 225 lbs. open for reference, which is where I got the 'slightly tighter than stock' pressure statement. Crower has a spreadsheet showing the different springs and their pressures @ varying lifts for calculations.
Does the engine need to come out to change the front bearing cam? I believe its this one here right? - Hardened cam bearing - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1559S Yes definitely getting a pressure gauge and also would like to hook back the oil light warning. maybe not necessary if I get a pressure gauge. As the parts for the oil pump are not that expensive, I might as well just get it with this order and replace once here or leave as spare just in case. thanks Gary. So basically I have 2 options: Get the level 3 and use TA tighter springs without a damper (i dont want to go down machining heads) Get level 2 and just use stock size springs did I get this right?
Sounds good. My apologies, but a family emergency just came up and I have to leave for now. Hopefully my advice helped. The other guys here are good fellas and are helpful too. Cheers
I don't think you need machine on the crower springs. I looked up specs TA springs are 1.360 diameter, crower are 1.400. When shop did mine the cut for seals. Nothing mentioned about machine for springs. I run TA springs with damper. Summit has cutters for spring pad and valve guide and you can do yourself. But I have no facts on what work is needed. I am actually swapping out a TA 310 cam for the crower myself. Maybe I will yank valve cover and look inside springs.
Thanks Gary, hope nothing too serious. I won't be ordering yet, I'll pull those heads out at the weekend, just to make sure nothing else is broken.... there will be time for more discussion on this cam/springs subject hahaha thanks for the help so far everyone.
It's evening here.. so I have nothing better to do then look for parts Hahaha I think pretty much everything is sorted except this cam and springs combinations of what to get. If I get Level 3 cam, get these springs and remove the damper, that right? - TA Stage 1 valve springs - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1436 If I get level 2 cam, get these springs? - hahaha.. cant find them!! damn.. I really hope I can get stuff from TA or i'm stuffed!!!
Here's an online pdf document showing the cam selections and compatible components: https://www.crower.com/media/mastercatloghtml/2017/domestic-camshafts/Buick/index.html?page=3 Scroll down to the Buick 350 and notice under level 1 and level 2 cams it shows a part number of 84058 under the column 'suitable component kit' A bit further down and you'll see the corresponding number lists other suitable parts, and shows for the valve springs '68313 -16' with the '16' representing the quantity and the '68313' being the part number for the valve springs. Notice that the Level 3 cam uses another part number for springs. You can look up the part number for the springs for specifications on those. Maybe call Crower to get more specific information and/or advice if you have any questions. EDIT: Steve Caruso (Underdog-350 I think is his username) is intimately familiar with these Crower cams and the necessary steps required to use one (springs, etc.). Maybe he'll show up and comment.
It was a death in the family. EDIT: please don't let this derail the thread. I don't want to be a buzzkill, I'll just bow out and deal with things. Must carry on.
oh **** man... sorry to hear about that! that's never good. hope you alright.... thanks for your replies above, I had a quick look and it makes sense. showing different types of springs for different cams. I'll leave you to deal with your loss, I'm getting an early night as well, well not so early as its 11pm here. I'll update the shopping list tomorrow and also show the relations between cams and springs. with so much info on this thread hopefully this will be handy for someone else too. thanks!
hi all.. me again. Been down the workshop this evening after work and have some photos and details, but first the shopping list now that I've looked at the Crower pdf and co-related what type of springs they say to use with what type of cam. In terms of cam: If I use level 2 - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cro-50257 Then I have to use these springs - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cro-68313-16 These spring retainers - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cro-87019-16 These valve seals - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cro-86072-16 If I use level 3 - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cro-50258 I have to use these springs - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cro-68405-16 These spring retainers - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cro-87021-16 These valve seals - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/cro-86072-16 Shopping list looks like the below, plus one of the options above depending if I got for level 2 or level 3. Lifters - Might have to use TA by the looks of it... http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1406 Timing chain - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/clo-c-3003k/overview/make/buick Pushrods - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1419A Hardened cam bearing - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1559S - Is this the correct one? and does the engine need to come out to change the front bearing cam? Engine gasket kit - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/slp-260-1012/overview/make/buick Valley Pan gasket - https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/fel-ms96006/overview/make/buick Might have sorted shipping for the parts I need to get from TA. a friend of a friend in the military, if I get the parts shipped to him then he can post via the military and I just pay postage as if within the UK. waiting to hear on that. all the summit stuff I can get through my friend hotrod shop, which tankfully seems like i can get most parts from them Now on to pictures... went down the work shop and took some photos of current state, cam looks really scored: and some photos of the springs Then I started to take some measurements with a digital caliper. I turned the cam to the highest point each lifter would get to and got the following results, i've written them in imperial and metric. Should they all be the same? there seems to be quite a variation..... I have also measured all the springs (except the ones on the left because heater matrix was in the way) and they are all about 1.8 something... that sounds normal? photos 20170907_195302 by JP Santos, on Flickr Lifters results springs results I will pull the heads out at the weekend, any tips? is there a specific pattern to undo and bolt up these heads? thanks once again. Hope the way I write makes it easier/simple/quick to read as I feel bad enough taking you guys time. JP
JP, I have no problem running the level 2 or 3 with iron manifolds and a Qjet. I recommend using the Crower component kit made for the cam. If there's ever a problem it won't be from compatibility. The Crower kit can be bought from Summit reasonably. If you want to but the components from different suppliers I suggest still using the cam makers lifter since they are in direct contact. Any spring that provides the specified open and closed figure can be used. If you want to use good Teflon seals the guides need to cut for them. Any machine shop that can do a valve job will know how and should have the cutter and seals in stock. I have used TA's stage1 springs with the level 1 and 2 cams with no problem. All 3 will work with a stock converter but a 2000 rpm stall speed is much better. I use Summits, its only like $200. Any cam likes compression, both of these like 9.5 :1 and will run fine even at 9:1. Yes the front cam bearing can be changed in the car. Just be careful. Hope I helped, Let me know if you have any other questions.
