How much power is a ported stock intake worth???

The December issue of Musclecar Enthusiast has a dyno article on a STOCK Stage 1. I know this is legit since Dan Jensen who organizes and runs the Pure Stock Muscla Car Drag Race did the motor and I saw it during assembly. It truly does have an original Stage 1 cam with 9.96:1 compression and NO porting, port matching etc. done to it. This motor will pass his certified stock program no problem. It made 380 hp @ 4700 rpm with 505 lbs/ft of torque at 3400 rpm. If he had put the compression at 10.5:1 the numbers would have been better, but he kept the compression down so the motor could be driven on pump gas. The original Stage 1 cam is very small,417 - .453 lift with duration at 208 - 227 @ .050 lift.

Incidently I have an original Stage 2 cam on the shelf along with a Wolverine grind that matches perfectly. I had the wolverine Stage 2 cam in my car for 3 years. It sounds wicked. It had original 1970 pistons, compression was 10.2, Stage 1 heads with NO porting of any sort, was not balanced and not blue printed, B4B intake, 1" carb spacer, 850 holley, headers and 4.11 gears. I put this thing together with parts that were laying around. Turbo 400 with 3000 stall Coan converter. Car weight 3750 with me in it. I was able to get 12.24 @ 111 mph with a 9" Hoosier slick. I played with the shift point and discovered the best shift point was 6200 with this cam.

I am now racing the car in the Pure Stock race here in MI. Compression is 10.8, Stage 1 heads with no porting, factory untouched manifolds all around, cam is .490 lift 226-238 dur. @ .050 with 3.73 gears. Shift point is 5300 max. I have gotten 12.63 @ 108+ using G-70-15 bias ply reproduction tires. Best 60' is 1.87.

 

Ken,
Just wanted to let you know that I saw your motor tonight at my house. It was real pretty, and I patted one of the valve covers for you.
Duane

 

I have heard that for STOCK UNPORTED intake/exhaust manifolds - the best results are with '67 castings. Anyone have data to back this up ??

Back to the underlying question at hand - how much "work" did Mr. GesSler perform on the heads ?? basic clean-up.....Street/strip....or race-port ??

Do you think that unported Small-valve or un-ported S1 heads would have produced bigger numbers for Ken using his stock intake ??

Jim - my motor is on its way to you, hopefully this morning - feel free to use my B4B or race-ported S1 heads as needed for any testing.....as long as it doesn't delay me any o No:

I'll also add to the kitty for testing

 

David,

Yes, those numbers sound about right... Ken's motor was exactly the same, except it had ported heads and more cam. The camshaft trades some torque for HP up higher.. in this case, we traded 30 ft/bs at 3300/3400 for nearly 30 HP and raised the operating range of the engine to 5300 rpm (peak at 51/52)

Which is pretty much what you would expect to happen with a moderate increase in cam timing, along with the head work.

Alan,

The heads are a bit of an unknown.. they were gasket matched, and then Greg did do what looked to be the "right" work on the short turns, and in the bowls, and did relieve the valves in the chambers and did some clean up there. Unfortuantly we did not get any flow numbers, I had assumed that Ken had gotten them from Greg, but found out he didn't after I had them bolted on.. But I don't think the heads are really an issue in themselves, I just mentioned that they were a lot bigger in cross sectional area in the ports, than the heads we normally do for this combo. I typically do a small valve head, with not a ton of port size increase, just flow work to the short turns, bowls and chambers.

I think that we may have more of an issue with the intake/exhaust/cam timing and how they relate to the combo, than anything.. and even then, I don't believe it's a big issue. But his motor may have "turned on" a bit better, with the manifolds ported. How much is the ???.

I certainly don't believe that unported STG 1 heads would have been better, but there is a possibility that we have a bit of a velocity and cylinder filling problem at the mid rpm range, which is keeping the torque down. Our VE numbers on this motor were in the 80-85% range.

Look at the dyno test of the Level 1 prototype..

http://www.trishieldperf.com/level_1_engine.htm

This is exactly the same shortblock, same cam, cam and ignition timing at the same place, same 800 cfm Q-jet with no spacer, but with 250 cfm small valve heads, with smaller ports, and it also has a port matched Performer, and full length headers.. VE on this motor was up in the high 90's. It filled the cylinders much better and that is where all the power comes from.

These two motors are not all that far apart, as far as hardware, and I suspect that Ken's motor may have had "better" flowing heads on it. But, it's a package deal we are after.. and the package on the R&D'ed Level 1 combo is better. Mainly due to the headers and intake, but there is missing factor here..

And that is the point of the testing we are talking about doing.


Duane... what.. is Ed doing a "tour" of the PA/NY area with that motor?? :laugh:



JW

 

manifolds

Hi Jim
I have a set of 70 Gessler ex manifolds available for the thrash,or just the left side if thats all you need.
gary

 

Can I help???

Ive been reading this post and had an ideal I have a 455 (not sure what year) that i got from a friend for a little of nothing the motor I was told has been rebuilt by a local engine builder in Ft. Wayne IN. I dont have a clue of whats been done to it or what parts are in it but im willing to donate it for testing the picture shows how I got the motor when i bought it. and since I planned on having it checked to ensure that it can be used I figure this will be a great place for it, im willing to cover the cost of shipping the motor and what ever cost of parts and labor after testing, I pretty much want to help and kill two birds with one stone in the end get my motor done and be apart of the R&D of this project. Im currently serving in Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom but can have my wife arrange shipment of the motor to Jim W.

anyones thoughts

 

Gary, got you down for the manifolds... let's let this continue to develop, and if it looks like a go, then I will let you know.. thanks bud.

Calvin..

Now that looks interesting... what is that, 2 intakes wrapped up, one on top of the other?..

This could be somthing we can pursue.. I am after a very stock engine, with fresh mechanicals, but no "hot rod" work done to it. I'm afraid that Larry's motor may already have the decks cut off it.. and it does have ported heads.. I have to touch base with him yet, but I will let you know.

Thanks, and stay safe over there.

JW

 

Geez-

A thread can really take off when you're down for the count with a little stomach bug!

I sent an email to Greg G and asked if he cared to comment on this thread. I'm sure he's got some expert advice he can offer. I'd have to find my receipt but I'm 95% certain the work Greg did on my heads was his Level 3 port work. You can see what this is all about here. Although I do not have head flow numbers specific to my heads, I imagine Greg has representative numbers for this level of head work.

His intake port work is shown here.

I think this is a very worthwhile excersize. It'd be great to get those elusive baseline numbers and then build up from there. Jim, you still have my stock exhaust manifolds if they'd be useful. There's obviously a lot of interest in seeing this project go forward! :TU:

I wonder where my engine is now on its East Coast Buick Power Tour???? :laugh: Duane, I hope you weren't doing a concours prelim when you patted my valve cover!

 

The "TSP/Lisk Engine Power Tour" is on the NJT enroute to the George Washington Bride at this time. Just spoke to "Errand Ed" and figured he will be making the Long Island pass around 2:00 PM.
If you leave now Ken you can be here before the garage sale starts!!

 

Holy Sh!t! I better get a move on! :laugh:

 

Can I help???

Jim

The Intake is not bolted on the motor it just sitting there and must have shifted out of place when I had it delivered to my house, the box on top it are the gaskets I think, the intake has not been ported, as far as i know and new parts were just bought for a rebuild, this is what I was told was done to it, i dont know anything about what else was done, but either way I (was and) would rather have it looked at to ensure that it is what it was claimed to be reliable, and if not with your guidence and reconmendation, have it rebuilt, i just thought this would be a good ideal, and maybe learn something, I was gonna have to have it done anyway just as an once of prevention, before i use it .... if you want i can start making arrangements for shipping now, hell when all is said and done i'll may even have you put it in one of my cars, I also got the tranny too

 

Sure Calvin, send it on up..

We can see what it's all about when we get it here.

Ship to address is

Tri-Shield Performance
1056 McKinley ST
Anoka, MN 55303

JW

 

See the new post I am about to create in the bench, titled "Restoration HP" development project.

It's time to start the fundraising, to see how involved we can get with this project..

JW

 

Ken, Your heads are basically my level 3 heads with the changes that you requested. Generally the Level 3's flow about 250-255 cfm on my flow bench. The level 3's have a gasket matched intake port opening to reduce the liklyhood of intake manifold port to head mismatch. The port volumes are kept as small as possible, so that they work very well with heavy cars with minimal gearing and stall speed.

A ported intake would help out on a car with level 3 heads, but its really most effective with a fully ported head. Plenum divider wall must be carefully matched to the car and its application. This is an area where too much of a "good thing" can be counterproductive.