I think both agreements made good business sense. I thought we were going to not make this political?
Good business sense??? Maybe to make something cheaper without having to jump through the environmental hoops that our representative government has imposed on business. I am not saying that it isn't necessary, just that it gives a competitive advantage to the lands and governments that do not require it. When you can hire someone for one day for less than what you can hire someone for one hour, it is a competitive advantage. Ford in Mexico was told they could not pay the people over a certain wage due to the fact that it would disrupt the economic balance in the country. Ford now gives them a free breakfast in addition to a ride to and from work. When a business does not have to pay for health insurance (1/4, 1/2, full rate), that is considered a competitive advantage. Call me old fashinioned, but Thomas Jefferson had a couple of things on the ball when he was telling everyone to work within your borders. I understand it is a global economy, but we need to take care of our own and bring others up to our level, not stoop to someone elses!!! If we held China and other countries to the same environmental standards that we have imposed on ourselves (again, I am saying this is a good thing), it would help to even the playing field some. Otherwise, put a tarriff on imports that would level the field some! No doubt that the quality of some products made overseas has come up, but we have made our own bed by buying cheap, replaceable crap that we have to buy multiple times. It is penny wise and pound foolish!!! I would rather buy a quality product once rather than buying cheap stuff again and again! I want the option and if I can't find that option in one store, I look other places!!!! Notice, I did not use one politicans name, save Mr. Jefferson, in this rant!:spank:
A business that reduces the bottom line to exploit profit is using good business sense. NAFTA allowed companies to use that to their advantage. But for a company to reduce its integrity by polluting in Mexico in ways they cannot in America is lacking in social responsibility. While it's not something that involves a law being broken, it would be nice to have a business follow an implicit social contract. Alas, just like Wall Street, sometimes the ethical thing can't be expected to be adhered to in a competitive environment where everyone is looking for their own competitive advantage.
I already forgot what the topic is..... How come everything is "political" now but it was patriotic to complain about your country before? Diego... There's good short range business sense and there's good long range business sense. Guess which one we've been using (and continue to use) and which one the global competition has been using and will continue to use.
When some customers of mine were affected by changes at the local Osram/Sylvania mfg plant, I started this practice with light bulbs ...choose a product and flip it over to see where it was produced, then decide if I am going to purchase it. The price was/is secondary to geography. It snowballed from there. I get ridiculed by my wife and close family for my retail store pre-purchase routine. Since I am in the auto body repair business. I have the luxury of seeing many different makes and models disassembled/parted out. If Porsche or Kia can save a cent they do regardless of what it effects for the repairer. Let me be the first to say THEY ALL ARE PROFIT MOTIVATED. Some are just less so than others. I remember the 80's/90's when I was growing up. There were some real atrocities in the auto industry, both foreign and domestic. Each manufacturer has benefited some way from the intense foreign competition. Unfortunately for the big three, this is the best product they have ever produced at the worst possible time to produce it. I just hope everything works out for our domestic car companies. It will really suck if I did not get to pay 3k over sticker for a new Camaro SS, white, tan leather, six speed, RS package, sunroof, navigation, etc... And then proceed to beat the living sh*t out it until the dealer stops honoring the warranty. Just like high school Except less hair and more waist Perfect timing for the new Guns N Roses album "Chinese Democracy" pun intended.
It is not good business sense to exploit profit -- if that's your only motive. It is not simply nice to follow a social contract -- it's both a moral obligation and makes good business sense. In both cases, individual greed (one company, acting out only for its own best interest) will, in the long run, destroy the society (because every other business will as well, just to keep up). And that one company will be destroyed along with society.
You're creating conditions to make a point. I didn't create conditions because I was talking in general terms. Additionally, I don't feel a social contract is a moral obligation - it's an ethical one. From Dave H: Which is why, Detroit or not, we have problems.
:TU: :TU: Me too, been doing it for 20+ years including light bulbs, saw blades, socks etc etc etc. I care about content and don't stop looking because of the lame argument that certain products like computers are unavailable.
Happy thanksgiving everybody.I have to agree with what CJ fordman says.One things for sure on this pure stocker site we all own old fashioned american musclecars.'It something different about muscle car guys getting together at a musclecar race or car show.Something I found that all should read is here at http:/wilsonniblett.wordpress.com/.Chris
Chris, :TU: Would be nice if the kiddies and Grandkiddies can buy American, not just American made, Muscle Cars. Made by us, not our fathers. (or antiques like me or Dave) The US economy is/was founded on the idea of building things, or growing things for ourselves and selling to others. We are successful because we worked harder at it than anyone else. Our standard of living and our wages are higher BECAUSE WE EARNED IT. I don't apologize to anybody for what I earn, or what I have. There are problems with greed, so? Other countries may eventually equal us in some areas, but they will swallow us if we don't continue to improve and get better. To Hell with the press and the "Down with America" crowd. They can only win if we allow them to. Those folks produce nothing, they add nothing but noise to the discussion, all they do is complain. We can blame unions, or politicians, or management, and they're all responsible. But when we're done baming, nothing is fixed. It's time to decide if we want to continue to excell, or become another European "has been" country. Excelling will not be acomplished through litigation, political Blustering or complaining at parties. Takes work. Your Grandfathers and Great-Grandfathers knew that, your fathers, my nit wit generation has forgotten Don't let this continue. :rant:
What European country is a "has-been" country? And what is this "down with America" crowd? I don't think I've met any of these individuals?
Pretty sure he is referring to the "buy Toyota,Honda,etc, not american" Down with America people that have,and continue to devalue the American dollar.
OK, so plug in your new word to my question and I'll rephrase. Certainly there are people who have the wrong perception of the cars coming out of Detroit, but you can't fault people for making purchases based on their needs when everyone has the same amount of information to equip themselves for their respective purchase, right? The situation is not good, but to suggest that people who decide to buy a new import are responsible for a low dollar is not really looking at the big picture.
Diego, How about France, or Spain? You CAN blame the consumer, if he or she doesn't compare the actual vehicles, and simply believes the press. You can also blame the press for not bothering to check or "spinning" the facts. The supposed quality advantage of Japanese or German products has been a popular theme for thirty years. As John Glasgo said, and many "head to head" Quality and Crash Safety studies have show, that's a crock. I would suggest that the purchase of foreign products weakens the dollar. Absolutely. When the profits of manufacturing wind up in Japan or China that money is gone. It may or may not return with the purchase of an American product. Probably not. How does that money get replaced? Service industries? I'm not totally against overseas products, I have two British motorcycles and one car, and a Japanese motorcycle. Theyre not better, just different.
Hey Pegleg, A week dollar is very good for US manufacturing and Agriculture. It helps keep people employed because they are making goods for export as well as local comsumption. If you are schooled in economics please forgive this little rant. The US has be running a trade deficit for a long time. This has weakened our manufacturing base. It will not however kill us. At the moment, China and the Middle East hold trillions of US dollars because of the trade deficit. You need to remember that the only thing the US government guarantees is that you can use that dollar for legal tender in the US. Now eventually all of the dollars that have been shipped out and saved by other countries will need to purchase something. When that happens they will need to either buy goods directly from the US or trade those dollars to someone that wants to buy something from the US. If you think about it, I would rather buy from foreigners when the dollar is strong(high) and sell when it is weak(low). That means I can buy more with it than I sell to it. Example would be earlier this year it was $1.56 to 1 Euro. At that time a bloke from the UK could purchase a new Mustang for 19,230 Euros. Now at $1.28 to the Euro the same bloke will need to spend 23,437 Euros on the same car. We were more likely to export the Mustang when the dollar was weak. The same is true the other way. We can buy more crap from the rest of the world when the dollar is strong. If we buy when the dollar is strong and sell when it is weak we can actually gain wealth as a nation. That doesn't mean during the transition from buyer to seller there will not be problems. At the moment a weak dollar will help force China and the Middle East to either buy American or trade their dollars to someone else. Either way we will stay employeed. Now you might say our lifestyle will be slightly lowered, but if the American worker is better than the others the loss will be manageable.
The problem is that all the manufacturing jobs have left the country, therefore, unemployed people aren't buying anything.
