One of my customers turned up at the PSMCDR. He read about the event in the magazines not knowing I was involved with the event (gee, I thought I told EVERYBODY about the PSMCDR). He got HOOKED by watching the races!! He just sold a 440-6 1970 RoadRunner and is looking for another project. In the meantime I saw his current car and I thought it would be eligible for the 2008 event. He wanted to know if it could be entered in the PSMCDR in case he doesn't come up with another toy by next year. So this is what he has............. 1969 Chevy Caprice convertible. 350cid/300hp 4 bbl. This is a white car with a red bucket seat/console interior and a black soft top. Will this be eligible even though it is not a big block or an Impala SS????? Or is it too pedestrian with no muscle car pedigree???
Doesn't sound good to me based on One base Toro being nixed and another allowed because it was a GT. Also Miller asked about doing a Caprice with a 454 but was nixed because it wasn't either a performance image car, a car with a performance engine or advertised as having performance beyond the base cars. o No: As usual ask Dan or Bob. :beers2:
Not to be too nit-picky, But I was wanting to build a 70 LS5 390h.p. 454 base Impala. With an Oval port 454 this would have surprised people. But was told it wasn't a Musclecar by the powers that be. I still disagree to an extent, and would still love to build one. There are alot of cars that attend the race the aren't "Musclecars", but are cars with "Muscular" engines. The term Musclecar wasn't coined until sometime in the 1980's, before that, big engined cars were called "Supercars" which is probably still a better term,even today. If the 64 GTO is credited with starting the Musclecar movement, what does that make everything prior to 1964? Is a 1966-1969 Bel Air/Biscayne with a 427 anymore or less of a Supercar than a base 70 Impala LS5? How about a 66 Caprice with the lowly 325hp 396? A Buick Centurian convertible? No offense to Caprice/Centurian owners, I just needed an example of two cars that race which were never called Musclecars. But, when playing in someone else's sandbox, you must play by the rules of the sandbox owner. I respect that, and I moved on.:bglasses: Stay tuned for my upcoming post requesting a change to the tire rules:Smarty: :Brow: Maybe a Poll, food for thought.uzzled:
Requesting a change to the tire rules ??? Are you talking about those colored rubber tires that do the really trick burnouts and win all the burnout contests out there ? Benoit needs some of them ............. :TU:
I agree, Tom. There are a number of cars ~under~ the "muscle" radar that might be considered for entry. How about a Rambler/AMC Rogue convertible with a 343-4bbl. and the "Twin Stick" 4 speed?? I have a buddy in the Washington DC area with a 1970 Chevy 396 (402) 4-speed 2 door Chevelle Nomad wagon. That wasn't approved for the PSMCDR. If we can allow Rancheros and ElCaminos, why not a BBC 4 gear 2 door wagon?? All are VERY cool cars in my opinion, but obviously do not meet the criteria for being a "musclecar". Now here is another possible candidate. Fellow PSMCDR 1970 Z-28 owner Ty (titanium) picked up 1967 Dart 273 4bbl/727. This way he can cruise around with his wife Keli and newborn Jesse with enough room for a kid seat and a stroller which just doesn't fit in the Zed-28. Should this car be allowed in the PSMCDR?? For that body style and year, the 273 4bbl. was as big as it gets in the Mopar A-bodies until they introduced the 383 GTS in late 1967 (the 340 wasn't introduced until 1968). The high winding solid lifter cammed 273-4 was available in ANY Dart body style. It didn't have to be a GT (which was just a trim level and NOT a performance level). Would Ty's new "family" car be eligible?? I don't see why not.o No:
I guess I can ask for my deposit back on that 70 Eldo with a 500 under the hood :grin: all I needed to do was remove the curb feelers and yank off the dingle balls and I would have been good to go.
Musclecar defined...interesting read. No Vettes though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musclecar#Origin
A good definition for a Musclecar is...... "Any given car with the biggest cubic inch,highest horsepower engine available for that bodystyle"o No:
I hoping to run it at some point.Looks like it is on that list.Curious to know what the answer is on the chevy or mine. Ty
If using this list, they would allow 6 cylinder cars into the category. For almost every other application they mention specific engine size for a specific body style. However, for the following: 19701974 Dodge Challenger 19661974 Dodge Charger 19681976 Dodge Dart GT, GTS, Swinger, and Demon They list no specific engine size. The slant six was the base engine in the Charger, the Challenger, the Dart GT, Swinger, and Demon. The only one with a HP BASE ENGINE is the GTS which started with the 340!!! Therefore, all Chargers, Challengers and Demons should be banned!:Smarty:
Yes, it was the W34 option. The original Toros (1966 and 1967) were all pretty much the same except one was a "Deluxe" series that was a little fancier. All had the same 425 with a big Qjet and dual exhaust standard. In 1968, the W34 option was released and called the GT. The base Toro didn't have the dual exhaust anymore, but the W34 did along with some other engine mods to give it the highest hp rating Olds ever (385)...even more than a W30. I have one of those engines out back on a stand for my 68 W30 car. It was also what was used in the 68 Hursts except for the intake and exhaust manifolds. Think the cam was a little different also. I seem to recall a green GT that ran way back in the Pure Stock NMCA category, but not recently. Seems to me one of Miller's gang showed up with an early Toro and they wouldn't let him race. Might that been that diesel mechanic buddy of Detweiler's that put all his spark plug wires on wrong.
Read the 1st paragraph of the rules on the PSMCDR web site and see if you can make a case for the cars in question.
Dave, Did you forget about the '70 Toronado GT? 455 Olds with 400 hp. That folks is the highest horsepower rating an Olds could ever have. The '68 H/O had a rating of 390 hp for the W-46 (380 for the W-45 a/c car!) In '69, all H/O's had a 380 hp rating. In '70, the W-30 was rated at 370. But the big dog of all of the Olds HP ratings is not allowed to play. Here is the ending to this Olds hijack:
The thread was Olds hijacked with the first responce. Suggested reading. The Toro that ran was a '70 GT.
DOH! When I first read your post, I thought you meant a TORINO GT and not a Toronado GT! :error: I wasn't there in the early years of the PSMCDR like some of you OLD timers. :Brow: So to give credit where credit is due.............THANKS Stefina, for Olds hi-jacking this one out of the gate. It's now all your fault! :beer
I'd LOVE to run a '70 Toro GT. I could "sneak" in the Motion-Markowitz "Ram-Lux" Toronado goodies and smoke you all ........... p A/C on during the return trip, of course. :grin:
After viewing this video footage, I can understand why the Toronado is not allowed to race in the PSMCDR.................. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEc14_cPZ4g :idea2:
