Lets call it the Can Am survivor showdown! HEMI vs. 427 vette

So he would have kicked the hemi's butt :Brow: :Brow: :Brow:

I gotta learn when to stop ou:


Honestly Mark, I thought I was right about that, but wasn't 100% sure....

I just remembered being in awe of the car running that good with the original spark plug wires !!

 

Me likey many carbs....... :laugh: :beer

The next Pure Stocker might be a single four.....only 'cause multiples were not available.

Might be.....

 

when mark to me to be careful with him running against his all original hemi car ,then see him spank it that way i could not believe he was doing that to it. but it is cool it ain't stuck in a glass room some where no one sees it.thanx for all the eye candy mark. :beer

 

Bruno and I were to kids in a candy shop. The Hemi earned the right to stretch its legs. It was put away in 1972, I emancipated it five years ago. Since then it has only driven on and off trailers. Enough of that, it needed to run.

Donny the LS6 has always been impressive to me. From the moment that it stopped in Stanton on the way home for the first time a few years ago and we checked it for safety and changed the fluids in the lot. Larry fired it up and rode it around after rounds and then I shot it down the track for back to back 13.40's @ 105 on old tires even. It had slept since the mid 80's. A good go over and it ran lower 13's with no gear. Think how it would have run with its current 4.11's. It surely would have gone 12's as a Virgin car!

Mark

 

Pretty neat guys, keep up the good work. No where else on the planet that this stuff is going on.!!!!!!!!! Anybody that appreciates these old girls should be delighted when this stuff goes down.

I know the young guys like their new stuff but, if you could imagine the times of the older cars with todays manufacturing processes on heads and blocks. The history books would have been rewritten by a sizable margin. :TU:

Jim

 

We're doing it.....

We( PSMCDR Participants) are rewriting the history book's every September, the part that is hard, is to compare these time's to people's memories of how fast they *thought* these car's were back in the day, out street racing :Smarty:
I think the thing that is hardest to swallow for some people, is seeing one of their favorites spanked by what they consider to be a lesser car, kind of hurt's their feeling's or something when the outcome of some of these pairing's clash with old memories. o No:

I think Bruno's Vette NHRA'd with a bigger tire would hurt the feeling's of some of the rectangle port 427 boy's :Smarty: I think the Oval port velosity would work better with exhaust manifold's, than what the rectangle port's do?
Bruno, are you ready to put this theory to the test :grin:

 

In similar chassis, I don't see it happening...it's gonna run outta cam too early, and it's building power in the wrong part of the band...but then again, what a cool experiment! But thinking of the "other" tri-power 'Vette engine gives me goose bumps... :Brow:

------------------------
Hillbilly Racing Team
Membership has it's privilages...no shoes required!

 

I still get goosebumps when I fire up that ol' girl. I would have loved to slip on the bigger buns and hit it with a bunch more timing and maybe get 3 tenths more out of it but it would have lost the essence of the "test".

It felt lazy out of the gate but came on stronger than I expected at the top.

I know I could have given it a bit more throttle to get going but was afraid of smokin'the skinnies and letting the HEMI trounce the lil' bowtie.

Do we setup a rematch ?............and switch seats?

 

I would switch seats and I would have no issue with beating you with your own car! Ok I got a bit ahead of myself there but you can bet I would giving it everything I have to win. I loved driving that Vette when I was working on it. What a car to drive. It could hardly feel any tighter and newer.

I would love to see how the Hemi would respond to a bit of tuning and a trans kit. The thing shifts as if it has peanut butter and honey for trans fluid. It was slow and imprecise to say the least. It needs an exhaust also, it sounds and acts like a kitten.

Donny I was wrong on the times for Larry's LS6 when virgin. I looked at the time slips this weekend and it ran a still very impressive 13.40's @ 105 when 100% as the factory built. It moved down to high 13.20's and low 13.0's with the carb and distributor done, and 13.10's with the exhaust added to the mix. The carb/timing/exhaust took .3's off the factory tune on 3.36 gears. That car has always run very well. Of course 12.81 with a ps motor and gear is even more impressive. And we could still run almost as a pump gas motor. I mixed the gas 3 gallons of 93 to one gallon 110.

Mark

 

I'm sure you would LOL! .........and you'll be "gentle" too huh? :3gears:

If we restricted it to tuning and tires, I think the vette would "right "itself.


I'm still in awe of the numbers posted by Larry's LS6. Now there's a car
that flies under the radar. I know the production numbers are low but that combo rarely gets any ink and its a bullet!

Bruno

 

I was very impressed by Larrys LS6 going 12.0, and wondered why my white 71 LS6 (car #109) was so slow at 13.1 @107mph. This was my first time at the psmcd, and will return next year with some polyglas tires and the right transmission!! i have to run faster next year so that I will not have to run the red studabaker again!! Any body got a set of polyglas tires for sale!! Great event with many new friends made that weekend.

 

just hang around the forum, two years ago I got my tires through a Coker group purchase, and last year there was a Kelsey one in December.........

 

MorganJD as your first time out running a 4spd and not being on Polyglas tires you did more than well. You did as well as Larry's car with the 100% original motor and better than Steve's very correct orange LS6. I think you should be proud of the performance you got out of the car.

Larry's drivetrain is highly prepared now. This fall we dropped a new very well built motor in, we went through the 100% stock trans and made sure it was up to the task, then finally the rear gear was changed from the original 3.36. I have had lots of time prepairing cars for this type of racing and for the most part the cars have been sucessful for the people driving them. Not withstanding the night mare we went through with the AMC this fall. Atleast it wast he fastest AMC even if it was off its true potential. The program for the LS6 was well thought out and not rushed into unlike the AMC. We still have a few items to address and maybe they will pull the last few points of performance out of it.

To get were Larry is we have had several years of experience we pulled form ourselves and other racers input. Thanks to JJ we have another opportunity to move forward with over the winter. There was lot's of dyno time on the motor. As much testing as I could give the car in the week I had before the race etc.

Talk with the fellow vette races. They will help you. Everyone in this racing will give up about 90% of what they have learned. They will leave the last 10% for you to earn through hard work.

What trans did you run and what is the correct one? We can start there and make sure you are going in the correct direction.

Good luck, I am sure you will have it going even faster next spring!

Mark

 

Mark, thanks for the kind words. The trans in the car is a super T10 with a 2.88 first gear. The rear end is a 3.70. The new trans will be here tomorrow and is an M20 2.52 first gear muncie. I think the first gear reduction will help with an easier launch and second gear is much closer to first. The rear end was fresh about 3,000 miles ago and I want to keep it. I would have to go to the 4 series carrier if i went with the 4.10. I am having the rear stub axles replaced as I have alot of slop on the drivers side and did not replace them when i had the rear end done (BIG MISTAKE). I do not know if this will help with the wheel hop that happens when the tires do not blaze up but just start to loose traction.I also did not run a spare tire?? I need to work on that lousy carb they make me run (780 downleg vacum holley, 4150). I will work on my air fuel ratio as It was fat at about 12.0. Any ideas on this tans, please let me know.

On another note, one of your neighbors has some nice toys, do you know John Hinckly??. John is the president of the michigan ncrs and also has a very original 69 Z28

 

Mark, I sent you a PM. :Comp:

 

Morgan my brother knows John and has seen the Z. I have not made it over yet.

Pete and JJ swear by the M20 for Chevy's. I tried it in the Judge and it did not work well in that combo of heavy weight and soft torque. A fellow Pontiac guy is doing really well on his though. Your 454 makes lots of torque so it should have not trouble with the big 3-4 shift drop.

Your carb is not that bad. We got it working very well in Larry's car. What I found on the dyno was you need to pull the two plastic stuffers out that are in both bowl areas. I can only assume they were for emission purposes. The power gain for that alone was huge. I do not remember the exact number but it was double digits. You will have to wait for the dyno article. I will lay out everything we did to make it run and it is a certifiable ps motor. This motor makes a lot of power. It may not be L88 strong but it will hold its own against most anything on pump gas. Ok we mixed a bit of race gas in.

We have had zero hop problems and the car carries all its original suspension parts from GM. Same with Bruno's car this fall. Hopefully you find the issue. Larry's old LS5 was on all original parts with no issues too.

Steve A I did not get your PM.

Mark

 

Morgan. how is the ride height in he rear of your car ???

If if is sitting up too high, that can cause wheel hop. The halfshafts should be a hair below parallel to the ground, so when the car squats the tires are not rolling over and there is as little bind in the rear as possible. The further from centerline, the more the camber changes as the rear end squats..

 

[QUOTESteve A I did not get your PM.

Mark[/QUOTE]

I tried again but your mailbox is full.

 

donny, I believe that i have the rear end camber set to near vertical, maybe 1/2 degree, (bottom of tire outward), rear spring was new 5 yeare ago and was the stock replacement. What do you guys use for the rear camber setting??? I was told that straight up and down is the best for drag racing?

 

Jeff,

I did my camber by eyeball the day before the race ou:

If I had to guess, I would say that your 'new' spring is too blame.

If you can, post a pic of you rear end (I bet that is not the first request like that you have ever gotten over the internet) I had my new spring de-arced over 2 inches and still had to run the longer spring bolts to get the rear setting right.