two groups here. career drunk drivers, and uninsured motorists. every year approximately 18,000 americans are killed on america's highways by drunk drivers. if my math is right, that is the same numbers as one 9-11 every two months, all year long. it seems you are far more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than you are by a terrorist. ( i'm just giving the stats. ) i have known of people with 6 or 12 drunk driving convictions. i find this unacceptable. these people will keep driving until it kills them, the potential of killing others is not enough deterent to make them stop. taking their license does not help. they buy junk cars and use illegal plates, then drive it til they get caught, and then only do a few months in jail. since they refuse to abide by the law, i say, at some number of convictions we need to give them life in prison w/o the possibility of parole. repeat offenders face a very lenient maximum sentence. this needs to change. the second group is those who choose to drive without liability insurance. if you read marks thread about the family in TX you can see what i mean. insurance cant undo the damage there, but that family will require millions of dollars worth of lifetime care. who will pay it ? a few years back, i was hit by a kid with no insurance after he ran the stop sign at a blind intersection. i think he may have been drinking too. luckily, i buy uninsured motorist coverage. his passenger / GF was not so luck, she nearly died. i saw a green streak come across in front of me, WHAM ! and it was all over in a heartbeat. had i been a split second earlier, he would've hit my door, and no doubt i would've been the one taking the helicopter ride. my insurance co. paid me for my truck, but only some of my medical bills, leaving me to pay the rest. they are no longer my insurance co. if you dont have uninsured motorist coverage, YOU DONT HAVE INSURANCE !!!!!!!!! to drive w/o insurance shows a total disregard for others. MD is adamant that i have insurance to cover him, but since this kid had OH plates, the police refused to charge him with anything other than causing the accident. :af: i nearly got in a fight with the cops over this when i pressed them to charge him. this was in frederick county MD. we call it fred-neck county. it seems that law enforcement in that county is provided for residents only. the kid tried to buy insurance two days after the accident, they knew it was an attempt to scam them. i was a bit surprised when i got a letter from this insurance co. informing me of his attempt at fraud, stating that they wash their hands of the entire incident. anybody can be late paying a bill, but those who refuse to buy insurance should be locked up and the key thrown away. to the best of my knowledge, the girl did recover. god i hope so.
You want scary statistics: Something like 40% of motorists in South Florida are uninsured!:jd: Statewide numbers: 25% or more in California, Texas, and Florida! -- Steve
I agree with your sentiments 110%. Many people are confused about the purpose of the justice sytem. Its purpose is NOT to punish criminals- its purpose is to PREVENT crime. The method that it is uses is to punish people who commit crimes, with the intention that people will avoid committing crimes in the first place. Unfortunately, however, our system is MUCH too easy on people who harm others. Can anyone think of a single case where the criminal got a worse punishment than the victim? I doubt it. In our backwards system, if you kill someone the victim stays dead but the criminal gets to live. If you paralyze someone because you rammed their car, their whole life (and children's life) is ruined but you get back to living after 6 months in jail. BACKWARDS! I advocate the death penalty- it should be a lot more widespread and tortuous than it currently exists. Take this idiot without insurance, who ruined two lives (and possibly the third one indirectly). If you want to send a message to people that you don't do that kind of thing, then punish the hell out of him! Death sentance? Maybe, but I think too easy. If you really want to send the message, instead of just the death sentance, put the guy in a room, and stab him with a fork once per minute until he bleeds to death. And televise it so everyone knows that you DO NOT do that kind of thing. Until we PUNISH criminals, people will continue to commit crimes. And, the criminals will have easier lives than the victims! -Bob Cunningham
.....A Good Old Public Stoning. Each relative gets a stone until they're tired.......and if he's still standing/breathing the mob gets to take pot shots tilll its done. The only problem with a death sentence is there must be irrefutable evidence.
Well said, all! I am for the death penalty, it just needs to be much swifter. Conviction on Tuesday, dead by Thursday! I know that a few are going to be wrong, but, with the odds this way, is anyone stupid enough to even try to get away with it? As far as Life in Prison, it should be just that: LIFE. No chance of parole, no chance of ever seeing anybody outside, no country club atmosphere and none of this right to a TV, telephone, exercise equipment, etc. I think we are way to easy on criminals, and don't get me started on the terrorists in Cuba. As far as insurance, if the insurance companies had more power to go after the deadbeats, with the police helping, I think more people would have insurance in the first place. But, I think we need to teach people how to avoid STUPID accidents in the first place. I am sick of paying extra for everybody elses accidents. Hang'em High! Jim
My thoughts: #1. Take a life while drunk, prison no matter what. #2. Refusing to buy insurance is one thing but not being able to afford insurance is another. #3. Caught driving drunk, license gone for a year instantly. Caught driving drunk again, license gone for 10 years. Drive drunk on your 10 year mark and license gone forever.
I've never seen anyone get the death penalty for killing someone while driving drunk so instant death penalty would be a pretty big leap while my view is more realisitic.
And that is what the bus, subway, train, or a bicycle, or 2 legs are for. If someone can't afford insurance, they have no business driving a motor vehicle. There are much cheaper alternative forms of transportation. jmho
So a person can't have a car if they can't afford to pay insurance? What's next, no life without life insurance? You've had it in for me since day one. I'm sorry for whatever horrible horrible thing I've done to you.
Better driver training, education and safety awareness is the answer. Long read. Absolutely 100% correct. One of the techniques that we teach at our Commercial Driver Training School is the "Smith System" Five Keys to Space Cushion Driving. This a trademarked program which usually requires a full day of classroom instruction. It is far more comprehensive than Defensive Driving, which basically teaches one to "Look out for the other driver". The Five keys are: 1 - Aim High in Steering. This requires one to look at the area they will enter in the next 15-30 seconds, plus everything in between. Most average drivers only look from 3 to 6 seconds in front of themselves....not enough time to deal with any problems they are likely to encounter. If I had a dollar for every person who told me that they had to swerve suddenly to avoid rear ending someone, I'd be rich. Those individuals simply don't give themselves enough time or space. 2 - Get the Big Picture. This requires you to actually look elsewhere than the road in front of you. What an interesting subject!! How many of you spend almost all your driving time looking only at what is directly in front of you?? Getting the BIG PICTURE means checking your mirrors, checking from side to side, checking your dash instruments/gauges/idiot lights etc. You will soon learn that other drivers can be very distracted/impaired/multi-tasking/etc. These are the drivers who can KILL/SEVERELY INJURE you and your family. Learn to find them, and let them pass you by, don't become another statistic. It only takes a spilt second for a seriously life altering vehicle collision to rob you and your family of health and well being. Sure, the odds favour you not having such a catastrophic event in your lifetime, but I want even better odds of avoiding such a calamity. 3 - Keep your Eyes Moving. How about a simple test?? Ask someone you know and trust to actually time how long you look only at the road ahead, without checking mirrors etc. I once timed a novice professional driver, who not move his eyes for over FIVE MINUTES. He stared out the windshield for the entire time. He even nodded off into a "micro sleep" at least twice during that time :shock: Would you want to ride with such a driver?? How about share the road with them???? Fact is, they are out there as well, lurking any where, just another collision waiting to happen. Don't become that victim. Learn to look all around your vehicle, and I mean ALL AROUND your vehicle, not just the left mirror whenever the urge strikes. Become fully aware of every other vehicle within close proximity of you. All it takes is someone beside you, or in front of you, or behind you to momentarily lose control, and your day just got ruined. :af: Become aware of who is distracted, and who around you is fully aware. We ask our student/trainees to check all around their vehicle every five to eight seconds. In fact, I've become so used to doing this, that if you were to follow me, you'd probably wonder just what I was doing. I see and am aware of far more than the average driver, which has saved my butt on several occasions. Example: When waiting at a red light, check all around for signs of the dreaded "redlight runner" and take your time pulling away if traffic is heavy. Of course, if cross traffic is light or non-existent, and there is an awaiting challenge, well, such challenges need not be ignored :Brow: :Brow: Remember, Active eyes are alert eyes, and you'll also benefit by not getting as fatigued as easily. 4 - Leave Yourself an Out. Simply put, try to allow for the inevitable mistakes of others. The easiest place to find an out is in front of you. Yes, I'm fully aware that other drivers tend to cut in front of you, which can royally tick you off. Relax, enjoy the drive, it's just not worth elevating your blood pressure due to someone else's poor habits. I constantly deal with such drivers whenever I'm driving my big rig in and around any town or city. It requires some great discipline to maintain composure whenever some small car cuts into my precious space, then pitches out the anchor because they need to make a right turn. I've learned to expect such maneuvers from just about everyone. Try to make sure that you allow plenty of room on at least one side of you, It may seem almost impossible to accomplish this, but it isn't impossible to try. The front of your vehicle is usaully the easiest to control, and if you use the right lane, you may also have the shoulder available as well. Try it, it's not difficult, just need some discipline to make space available. 5 - Make Sure They See You. This means using your lights at ALL times. I know that many of you do not like daytime running lights for some reason, but fact is, the human eye is attracted to light. Even on a bright sunny day, your eyes will be attracted to vehicle headlights. Did you know that the United States is the ONLY industrializes nation WITHOUT a mandatory daytime running light law?? Get into the habit of using your headlights all the time. The cost of a battery boost is minor compared to the cost of a serious traffic collision. After all, doesn't your family deserve to see you return safely home after every time you drive, make sure THEY see you. There is much, much more to the entire "Smith System", I've only covered the basics. If everyone were taught to drive using such a method, I'm certain that traffic collisions, serious injuries, and fatalities would be drastically reduced. You may have noticed that I have avoided the use of both "accident" and "crash". That is deliberate on my part, for the true definition of "accident" does not include the colliding of, or coming together of two or more motor vehicles, or a single motor vehicle which runs off the road. If you really researched the actual cost that insurers must build into the premiums they charge for the mistakes of others, plus potential future litigation costs they may be forced to pay, it would sicken you. We've all heard the stories of drivers paying several thousand dollars/year for insurance, usually a result of previous claims and /or poor driving records. What if such drivers stop buying insurance, but still drive poorly?? These drivers are the ones to really look out for, and avoid at all costs. Sadly, however, too many people become victims of these very same uninsured/poor drivers, such as the young woman, and her children in another post. Unfortunately, we cannot "undo" past events, but we can learn from them. Where I live, we have compulsory vehicle insurance, so the chance of colliding with an uninsured motorist is much smaller than in California, Florida, or Texas, but it can happen. Our insurance rates are also controlled by a public oversight committee, so no gouging. We do not, however, have the right to sue if we become a victim of a motor vehicle collision. This also helps to keep insurance costs under control, since all personal injury claims are paid out according to a specific rate scale. The lawyers initially raised quite a stink when the right to sue was dropped, but it has been for the better for everyone. Insurance rates have stabilized, even gone down in some years. Sorry for the long read, this is a subject which really raises my hackles. (Disclaimer: This is not meant to be taken as a slag against the fun loving, tire shredding, let the good times roll, members of the forum. Just remember, for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.)
Cody, I think what is meant here is that a person who operates a motor vehicle without vehicle insurance is a potential threat to many other road users. Whether that person is responsible for any collision or not, is really irrelevant. What becomes relevant, is whether that person was responsible enough to insure themselves against injuring other persons, regardless of who caused the collision. Think of it this way, every day you drive your car, you get one roll of the dice, roll snake eyes, and you're gonna pay big. So big in fact, that for you, life is basically over, a judge states that 30% of all your future earnings will be paid to the person who was struck by your car, which was operated by you. Roll any other number, and you won't have to worry. Everyday, you have a 1 in 12 chance of paying, it's pretty basic math, but it makes my point. Today, I offer you a way to not have to worry about that daily dice roll. You buy my insurance, and now no more concern about whether today is the day you roll those snake eyes. Just pay the premiums, and we'll take care of the rest, for you, life goes on, your insurance pays for the other persons care. When I was younger, I resented having to buy collision insurance on my $200.00 to $500.00 beaters. I DID, however, want to buy liability insurance. I couldn't get one without the other under our mandatory government run insurance program. Here, if you want to register/title a car, you MUST buy insurance, no exceptions. I also pay into an uninsured motorist pool every year as part of my drivers license fee. As for life insurance, that's another kettle of fish altogether, basically you die, someone else collects.
Well, over 2 years ago I got my first speeding ticket. And I'll admit, that was all my fault, one of the dumbest things I've ever done. I went to the driver ed class the state lets you go to to keep your license and whatnot. I was doing great. Then I got a second speeding ticket for two reasons: 1) Three Teenage boys in a truck pulling a boat on a Sunday morning at 9. 2) Keeping up with traffic, some even going faster than me. That is beyond the scope of this though. I had to go a year from the date I got out of the driver class and I made it like four months or something. So my license was suspended for 60 days, when I got it back I was on probation for SIX months, SR-22 (special high risk insurance) for T W O years. TWO YEARS at over $1500 per year to insure JUST liability! There was a kid in the grade below me with T H R E E DUI's and he never lost his license. How can they place speeding over drunk driving? I don't know. But it's been almost two years into my SR-22 and I broke the speeding habit I never had and I just have to go until early spring and I'm off the stupid high risk crap, but anyway, I agree. But I'm somewhat of an oddity I guess, I'm one of two twenty year olds in the known world that doesn't drink... Oh well, I know I'm in the right I wrote lots of papers about this subject freshman year of college actually Anyway, maybe if some of us wrote our state congresspeople we would have some luck? :rant:
I think the record number of DWI's in Minnesota is a guy with 28, or something in that neighborhood! Over the years when he has been in the news, you pause and say "oh yeah, that guy". We had the Smith system drilled into us during driver's ed in high school. (1976) It was probably the most useful set of common sense tools they taught looking back on it now.
In Sweden when you take your driver's test it's a thorough written test and a thorough driver's test. You cannot have one fault on either test or you fail. It takes people alot of money and time to EARN their driver's license. The cars have a yearly check up, where you have to correct anything that is wrong with it. Otherwise it's not deemed roadworthy. When you first get your license you have a test period for two years where they will susped your license if you get a ticket. People there are always laughing about how how easy it is to get yuer license here. Just drive around the block and answer a few multiples, piece of cake.... That kind of teaches people to be more responsible driver's to start with I guess. Well that's just the way it is there. Cheers
my op was only intended to renew awareness to the monumental problems caused by drunk driving, and lack of liability insurance. sorry if it created any controversy. i may start a spin off thread about drivers ed classes though.
Cody, that comment is totally unwarranted. I've been no more involved in "moderating" your activity on this board, than the rest of our moderators. When any board member is involved in controversial threads/posts, there is a chance any one of the moderators will step in and exercise board policies. There's no reason to take it personally when a thread or post is removed. We aren't making a personal judgment of the member involved, only making decisions relating to content and policy.
Henry, no controversy here, I agree 100% with you on both points. My first post here was intended to raise awareness of how to spot problem drivers, whether they're drunk, stoned, or otherwise pre-occupied. I can get carried away sometimes though. :laugh:
tom, all your posts were great. some need to hear from a professional driver. i kind of feel that one doesnt truly know how to drive until they've mastered an 18 wheeler. more to come when i start the drivers ed thread.
