Moog cast iron upper ball joints?

I just bought some upper ball joints to replace in my rebuild and the Moog brand now comes with cast iron housings. The last set I bought from them was stamped steel. Anyone remember if orginals were cast or stamped. It was a while back when I took them out. Just wondering if the cast iron was better? They look rock solid.

 

I thought all the Moog were cast iron???? You sure the last set was Moog? The OEM were cast iron on my 70 - I had to cut the rivets off so I assume they were OEM....

Like: http://info.rockauto.com/Moog/Detail.html?K5108_TOP.jpg&K5108_ANG.jpg

- Bill

 

Bill thanks for the info. I bought Moog ball joins about 5 years ago and they were stamped steel. I still have them on my old control arms. So you rememeber that GM uppers were cast iron as well? I have taken several apart but for the life of me I cannot remember what they were made of. I thought they were stamped steel but may be wrong. I would like to think I am. Do you still have some originals around? I may have to do some more junkyard scrounging to take a look. Another funny thing about the MOOGs is I can move the shafts in the balljoints by hand. Stamped steel ones I never could move them by hand pressure alone. I wonder if this would make for a looser front end?

 

Bill, also the Moog link you have shows the stamped steel ones. It is easy to see the difference as the cast iron ones have the center cirlce as stainless steel where the grease fitting is. The stamped steel ones in the picture have same dark stamped steel raised ring. They look very different from the new ones.

 

All the ones I have used and removed from orig Florida granny cars were stamped steel. I would think cast iron would be too soft.

As for the stud moving by hand easily.......that is a bad joint out of the box...they should not move easily.....don't use it.

 

Every one I have ever seen has been stamped steel.

JW

 

I had Moog stamped steel ball joints in my car, along with all Moog front end components. They were in for a total of 2200 miles over a 8-10 year period and maybe a 100-150 passes down the quarter mile. After installing a new set of tires and wheels, I decided it's time for a fresh wheel alignment. I did the standard tests before the wheel alignment, only to discover that almost every component in the front end was trash! The upper ball joints were the worst of the bunch. They had so much play that I can't believe they didn't come apart.

I knew that the front end felt "loose" for some time, but with no sway bar, drag springs and drag shocks, it always felt loose and free, but always handled "ok".

Anyway, I put new components in the front end last fall, but ran out of good weather to have the front end alignment done, so I postponed it until this spring. This time around I went to "HD Professional grade Spicer" components since the Moog stuff wore out so fast. I took it in for the alginment and we found that the left upper ball joint had very excessive play in it, and the left a smaller amount of play!! These are brand new with 5 miles on them! They covered both uppers under warranty, but I still had to supply my own labor to change them out.

My point here is that the quality of these components has deteriorated over the years. Why did the Moog parts fail? The 100-150 passes down the strip? Why were the new Spicer units bad out of the box?
It's seems very difficult to find good quality anywhere these days!!

Steve

 

I guess I don't know what cast iron ones look like...whatever is in the link is what I had, so they must have been what you are calling stamped steel! To qoute Moog: "The ball-joint housings are forged and/or machined from a single block of fine-grain alloy steel". Stamped=Forged (metals are wrought by heating and hammering)! I usually take stamped steel to be thin moldings, like fenders. For example, the ball joint rubber boot retainer is "stamped". Interesting!

- Bill

 

Steve,

Welcome to my world..

Your products and TA's are about the only ones I can take out of the box with confidence anymore.. everything else has to be scrutinized to see if it's a piece of junk.

Welcome to the "global economy"


On another subject, I saw the front clip you made for your race car.. very slick, but before you get too far down the road on it, make sure you fabricate some plexiglass plates to block off the grill openings.- We did that on George's car, and even well down into the 9's, it was worth a solid tenth.. and it also eliminated the hood wanting to depart from the car, as it really relieves the air pressure under the hood. Race cars don't need the grill openings, if your going to street it some, you can always make them removeable.

That's exactly the front end setup I will be building the next time around.. Sweesy got ahold of someone to make him a one piece clip, and my first instinct when I saw it was to send it back... after mounting it, and untold hours just to make it decent.. let's just say I should have trusted my initial reaction.

What does your's weight?

JW

 

Thanks Jim, for the vote of confidence! I try!

Thanks for the comments on the front clip also. It took me a while to figure it all out, but I think it came out pretty clean. I'm not sure what the front clip weighs, but I know I was surprised the last time I took it off. Adding the grille, spoiler and a few other items added a fair amount of weight, although it's still very easy for one person to handle. I'll weigh it sometime soon and let you know. I'm hoping the entire car comes in at 3000lbs or less.
About the plexi block off plates..... do you think they need to be flush with the front of the grille, or can they be recessed rearward, or even perhaps behind the eggshell part of the grille? I want to keep the stock appearance if possible! :Brow: LOL

Thanks again!!
Steve

 

Steve,

ya, put them behind the eggshells for a clean look..

I am sure that Areodynamically it would be better to have a smooth front end, but we aren't going 200 mph either.. so I doubt it matters.

JW

 

Hmm, that is disturbing if these new balljoints are no good, If Spicer proff grad is no good and Moog no god where is there to turn? I almost had some NOS but they were gone. The older stamped steel jobs were two pieces of steel sandwiched together. Newr ones look like solid piec of cast iron. The new ones have Moog problem solver in the stainless looking circle. The old ones had no Moog identification. Also George. The new shafts move by hand but I guess it is not really easy. Still bad?

 

George, you are absolutely right about it being no good. I guess I only tried to move one because one moves too esily. The other you cannot move by hand so I have a bad ball joint. Hello Rock Auto Returns please.

 

I'm buying lower ball joints for my '96 Riv as part of rebuliding the front suspension, and on Rock Auto you can buy $12.00 ball joints! :shock:

Not sure I would trust them even on a coaster wagon.

(I'm not buying them by the way.)

 

I have had real good luck with McQuay-Norris stuff. Most of it is still USA made, you will get some India stuff from them now and then.. but have yet to see "made in China" on any boxes.

Never had a defective part from them. Have used several thousand dollars worth of product in the last dozen years.

JW

 

They may look like cast iron but they are not. Cast iron would crack as soon as all the bolts were tightened. If you look at the casting mark closely, you will find that they are forged steel. Forged steel looks the same as cast iron except for the casting/forging mark.

Technicaly speaking, a ball joint should have no friction and no freeplay to be considered "perfect". They should not bind or be hard to move in any direction.

Moog part carry a lifetime warrany, so put em in and if they ever wear out, and you still have your reciept, they will replace them for free.

I have never seen a ball joint housing crack except for once a parts store gave us a cheesy 10 dollar tie rod and it cracked when I put the grease gun to it. Closer inspection revealed they had cut the cover groove too far into the forging, causing a weak spot.

.02 from a guy that knows nothing

 

Jim.................. 65 lbs.



Steve

 

I was told when Moog and TRW merged.....McQuay-Norris....was part of Moog......so they are all the same parts but in different boxes.

 

http://www.affiniagroup.com/wps/portal/affiniagroup

 

Dave - It sounds like Moog has developed a new line. Try to order against the old part number, or go to your local jobber where you can see the part. I would think you could still get the forged steel parts for a while. This from Moog/FM:
"Moog's popular ball joint replacement tool and new Problem Solver(TM) lower ball joint enable automotive service shops to increase bay productivity and customer satisfaction by speeding the repair process and minimizing component failure issues. The innovative service tool assists technicians both in proper removal of corroded original parts and installation of Moog replacement ball joints. The mating surfaces of a vehicles' aluminum steering knuckle and original ball joint housing can promote galvanic corrosion, making ball joint replacement very difficult for the technician without the proper tool. Improper removal of the original component can damage or destroy the aluminum steering knuckle. (Heat should never be applied to the aluminum knuckle.) Use of the T40256 allows the technician to quickly and safely replace the worn joint.

The premium Moog Problem Solver ball joint features a corrosion-resistant zinc-plated housing, polyurethane sealed boot with integral grease relief valve, full-ball hardened stud with grease grooves, and powdered-metal "gusher" bearing. The ball-joint's advanced Belleville washer pre-load helps reduce torque and stud articulation requirements while ensuring minimal axial clearance."
Ahhhh - progress is a wonderful thing...

- Bill