Other undocumented cars like gto wagons that people know about?

1970 442

Attached photo of 1970 W-30 with Cutlass S trim. Car had dealer invoive showing deletion of stripes and inclusion of Cutlass S trim and replacing raised letter tires with G78-14 Whitewalls.

 

Pont-a-Mousson, I believe is the name. I think they were available on Facel Vegas too.

 

Only back in NYC for a little over 6 months and there he goes with that wierd talk again. Pont-a mousson? Facel Vega? Libenshnoggleschwitz? What is it, the water, or the air? :laugh: :laugh:

Paul:

Sure like to know what the VIN is on that car. Seems like it would be easier to put the W30 drivetrain in a 33687 Cutlass S than change out all the trim, repaint, etc. on a 34487 442 W30.

There were lots of plain Jane 66 and 67 Cutlass 4 doors running around Lansing with big blocks and everything from tripower to Webers on top. Lansing Police force and Ingham County Sheriff Depts. used them as test beds for Olds Engineering. Supposedly scrapped when they were retired. Sheriff's cars were mostly Delta 4 doors from 68 on. They would really move. I know how quick they can catch a B/MP Mopar on Jolly Road that was merely out for a little exercise. :af:

 

I'm not sure how widely know this is but the first '67 Camaro test mules were Corvairs with v8's stuck in the front. There were a few of those prowling around in the Flint area in early calendar year 1966.

K

 

Check this out. There used to be a guy in my neighborhood in Jersey back in the late seventies/early eighties, who had a Ford Granada with dual exhaust & 4 speed. It was all factory from what I remember. Never saw one before or since. I remember it sounded throaty.

 

To add to this....when I was with Hydramatic our Northstar 4T80 development high speed test mules were the current front drive Sevilles with modified 350 Chev engines transverse mounted.

Last time I was out at the Dessert Proving grounds in '89 or so they still had the '67 Tempest high speed tire test car with a big block Chev. I'm sure it is long gone (they were closing the whole place last I heard) but it was neat even then.

Lot's of neat modified stuff to replicate the upcoming model driveline.

Like the Seville used to test sump cavitation. Hole in the floor with a camera pointed at the mirror hung underneath the clear bottom pan. Solid bushings and short sidwall tires for tight turn as fast as you can go maneuvers.

 

News Flash!

I remember that Tempest - I was out there from 1989 'til January of 1994. It was still there when I left.

But the big news: the DPG is going to remain open! I was glad to hear that (as were a lot of my buddies in Arizona).

I'd go back if I could...

K

 

1970 W-30 and Chrysler 300

Dave H
that car was the real deal. I saw it at the OCA Nats in Omaha in 1992. It was definitely a 442 and everthing on the car was original including paint. I wish I had taken a photo of the dealer invoice, but didn't.

Diego,
You are correct on the trans, Facel Vega used the Pont-A Moussen as those cars used Chrysler drive lines. The early cars had 392 Hemi's 1059 and onward used wedge engines.
Hers is a story on one of the cars

http://www.chrysler300club.com/stories/graefen/GT300F.html

 

Test Mule Camaros

According to Michael Lamms book on the First Gen Camaros the test mules pictured there were 65 Chevy II.
Hadn't heard of the Corvairs being used.

 

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but i'm getting a helluva history lesson here... I hope this thread never ends.

JH :beer

 

Toronado mules

I worked at Saginaw Steering Gear Div of GM in the summer of 1965, and the test mules for the upcoming Toronado were 64 Dynamic 88's with an extra foot or so added to the front end. VERY wierd looking cars. SSG was doing the drive axle and steering gear/column development at that time, cars belonged to Olds, were on loan.

Paul:

I was born in Missouri (Joplin), would have to see that VIN on the car, engine and frame (YUP, I know where to look, was my area of responsibility back then.) I'd probably still question it, though. Why would anyone want to do that? There are easier ways to end up with a car like that.

Like so many others, W31 Rallye 350's, others, it's entirely possible that the car was sold that way....just not built on the assembly line in Lansing like that UNLESS it was a special Engineering Release (red border) and not for resale. GM had a procedure called COPO (sound familiar?) that was required to build a car that wouldn't certify and there is no way they could get approval (or be able to afford) building a car like that on the assembly line. We were running about 85 cars an hour then on 2 shifts, (later increased to 96 to get 93) and couldn't afford the delay for special handling without running an empty space before and after a car like that (Like we did on the 2 swiss cheese cars).

Dan Jensen showed me all the paperwork on a Rallye 350 with a W31 engine that he feels is authentic and I'm sorry, just know too much about the inner workings, legalities, and politics of how cars were assembled in Lansing in those years. No way it came off the assembly line that way. Manufacturing superintendents would have had Product Engineering (or anyone else) by the balls if they tried to run a car like that through the system (without a blank check work order to cover "special handling"). Then you could do anything you want (eventually), but no one could afford that car.

Chevy II's would make a lot more sense on the Camaro.

I had 3 GM A cars (2 1982 Chevy Celebrities, and a 1983(84?) Pontiac 6000 STE) built as mules to develop the 1986 Taurus/Sable Heater and A/C EATC system at Ford when I was in charge of that. Took brand new cars, had the entire cowl sections and instrument panels cut out and handmade prototype Taurus steel cowl sections and fiberglass Instrument panels and heater A/C systems installed for testing. Took them all over the country. Pontiac was neat, Chevy's sucked.

 

Cool, If it had factory duals it was really rare, the guys I've seen that have duals ran it themselves. I want to get an earlier model one and drop in a stroked 351 and make a sleeper out of it

 

How about a Full Size Station Wagon with Factory 4 speed??

Last year I was cruising the net when I came across the now defunct 1967 Full Sized Ford and Mercury Registry.

While reading thru all the stories and checking out some of the cars, (I used to own a 67 Ford convert), read about a rumored 67 Country Squire wagon with a 428 and a 4 speed. The car was supposed to have bucket seats and console as well.

The Registry owner was big into 67 Full size Fords, and set out to discover the truth. Imagine his surprise when he actually found, and was able to buy this very car. He found paperwork from the original owner, and 35 years after, was able to call him and ask WHY???

Apparently, Ford did not offer buckets seats from factory, but dealers could install them. 4 speed transmissions were absolutely not available either from factory or dealer in the full size wagon.

Undaunted, the original owner persisted, since he had given up his sporty cars for his young family, but still wanted to shift em manually, even though he needed a bigger car. After pestering his local dealer for several months, the dealer gave him a name and phone number to call, explaining that if this person agreed, then maybe the car could be built.

He called the person at Ford HQ, and explained his desire to remain a valued customer, while lamenting the inability of Ford to build the car he wanted. The man listened patiently, asked a few questions, then replied that if that was what you want, then Ford will build it for you.

The result, a Kevin Marti documented true one of one, Ford Country Squire 9 Passenger Wagon, fully loaded, 428, 4 speed, buckets, console, all power,A/C, etc., etc.

The man who approved the car to be built:

Lee Iacocca

The car apparently still survives, last I heard somewhere in Ohio (I think). It needs a full restoration, which is supposed to be done by present owner, one Adrian Clements, former owner of the now defunct 67 Ford Full size registry.

 

Ford was always more flexible than GM for "special favors". Probably because of the serious internal politics between the BOP divisions at GM that didn't exist at Ford. Each of those divisions ran almost like an independent company from each other and fought over about a 2 million car market every year. At Olds, we didn't pay any attention to what Ford or Mopar were doing, Just Pontiac and Buick. Hard to get away with anything on the production lines. What happens in the X garages or at Milford , stayed in the X garages or Milford usually. Vicious competition between the three back then. Buick joined the performance game a little later than the other two, but sure came on strong when they did. It all pretty much ended at Olds in 1970 when they shifted to emissions development for the corporation (which got Stempel where he got to).

Don Peterson, ex-CEO of Ford and a real car enthusiast, had 3 Mark VII's specially modified in the X garage in Dearborn in the mid 80's. He would drive them home to Bloomfield every now and then. At least one of them had a 5 speed (not sure of that total power train), and two of them had Roush built 351's in them. Not sure how they came off the assy line at Wixom, though. My panty waste Taurus mules were in the stalls next to one of them one time when they started one up. Sounded like M.I.S.

Tasca Ford somewhere in New England (and others) also had a special relationship with Ford and could get pretty much anything they wanted built in the plants. I was in the Probe plant in Flat Rock when a very special one was built for some Tasca family member. Can only imagine what they had built back in the muscle car days. Wixom was always building something special in the Lincolns, it seemed.

 

I saw that car in the very early 90's at the Jefferson WI show/swap meet. Was in the car corral for sale. 14 grand IIRC.

Between not having money back then and the fact that I wanted a W30 that looked like a W30, I wasn't interested.

THe pea green paint and matching interior didn't help.

Came out of California? Memory isn't the best.....