the paint on my 69 looks to be original.if i'm not going for a show finish,is it really nesassary to strip the old paint off?can i just sand it down and primer it if there is no evidence of previous work?i understand you want to get rid of old filler,not knowing how it was done,but i see no evidence of any work being done before.the paint is dull and faded evenly.also it had a vinyl top that was peeled off and the glue was damn good back then,can i sand that down or should i use an adhesive remover to get the glue off?if so what's it called?
if it was my car i would strip it, your new paint is only as strong as the weakest link in the line (your old paint would be that weak link) if your paint is in good condition just faded you could get away with sanding off the oxidation with 180 or so on a block then seal with some epoxy, if your original paint is not pealing this will be more than acceptable.
I was always told that with older cars, the old paint doesn't react well with the newer types of paint and so your adhesion wouldn't be nearly as good by painting the car over the old paint.
your statement is true, there can be compatibility issues between the different types of paint, that's why if you do scuff your old paint, SEAL WITH EPOXY that will prevent most chances of failure due to compatibility issues. (personally i would strip the car to bare metal, so i know whats under the paint) but no, its not absolutely necessary
Media Blasting Jamie, The epoxy primer will seal the old paint, but nothing beats media blasting. As you can see on LAST87GN's car, media blasting can be done with the glass in it. It removes all paint WITHOUT warping the panels...even leaves the factory lead seems intact! I understand you are not looking for a show quality paint job. My argument to you is that you CAN have a show quality paint job (even with average paint) if you do show quality metal prep and body work. If you decide to media strip, think about all the time you will save by having a clean, bare metal car to start with. DA-ing takes time and stripping it yourself with chemicals is a nightmare IMHO. As far as the bodywork goes, it's the holiday season...there's nothing better than some egg nog, hammer and dolly and a sanding block for those cheerful days with the in-laws :laugh: .
All I have to say is, yes, stripping the car (and plastic media is the only way to go as far as I am concerned) is the BEST way to do it. However, be prepared for a HUNDRED hoursb or more work. I can not put it any other way, for a home hobbiest to do it, you are talking a HUNDRED hours. So, in kick your butt 20 hour weekends we are talking over a month. That would be if you strip it yourself. If you have it media blasted, cut that in half, it is STILL a lot more work than just painting over what you have. The original paint isn't very thick, so film build up isn't much of an issue. It really comes down to the fact that the original paint is lacquer and very low on the technology ladder. To have a compete new system on there with urethanes and or epoxy undercoats on the metal would be far superior. "What is underneeth"? You may not want to know! It really depends on what is the "Bestest" way for YOU. If you were to strip this car and find a bunch of filler work under it that you have to do over, add another hundred hours. If you think this sounds discuraging, I meant it to. Having a bare metal car sitting there can be VERY, VERY overwelming. It is a HUGE job and for a home hobbiest it can be the death blow in a restoration. We just have to "keep it real" Brian
How did you prep your car for media blasting? Did they do the trunk and door jams? How much did it cost? I've got all of next week off and was going to do body work the entire week on my car. I was going to use chemical stripper, but seeing how well media blasting works, I'm going to look into that. So a couple of questions. When you have a bare metal car like that, what's the first step? I understand you need to seal the car so it doesn't rus, what do you use? Do you then spray on primer on top of that?
Blasted car If it were me, I'd either get busy with the body work, or etch prime it before it rusts. Etch primer is what you use on bare metal. Primer surfacer (or build primer as some of you buick guys call it) goes on body work/minor scratches etc. and a primer sealer is applied right under the base coat. That's about 3 most common primers. Good luck.
To recap, on bare metal you need to use an etch primer. Does that need to be sanded at all before the "primer surfacer" goes on? Is the primer surfacer a fill primer? After that I believe I know what I'm doing. I helped a friend paint a car but we didn't go down to bare metal.
Obviously there are more ways then one to do this, it seems like if you ask 12 bodymen how to do something, you get a dozen different answers, and everybody has thier favorite products. After I strip a car to bare metal, (usually chemical stripper followed by a DA sander) I have always used PPG DP90 (now DP90LF) then use urethane primer to block, but I have recently begun using Valspar direct-to-metal primer, anyone here have thoughts on this product, it does seem to have good build quality. Not saying my way is how it needs to be done, but looking for a better way. Keep up the discussions! :TU:
yes you will need to coat the bare metal with a "wash" (etch) primer or epoxy primer both have good adhesion to bare metal. try not to get etch primer near body filler. yes primer surfacer is a FILL primer, goes on thicker meant for sanding.
Yes you will have to sand the etch primer unless you top coat it the same day it's applied. (or within 24 hour) Same goes for most primers and paints that are meant to be topcoated without sanding.
Personally never used Valspar but hear it's a good product line. Anything that comes out of a spray gun that I use is Dupont. Not saying Dupont is the best, just familiar with their stuff and a name I trust and haven't had problems with. Haven't used PPG in years but it's good stuff. I strip the way you do, chem then DA. Cleaner than blasting. I keep my shop pretty emaculate the best I can. And you are right about the 12 bodymen. There are several way to get the same results in the end. The end product is what matters. I don't always do things the same way everytime, but there are wrong things to do and wrong products to use for an intended purpose. Surfacer, even though a primer isn't made for bare metal like alot of people think. I noticed you are ASE (master at that). :TU: I'm not a master in any ASE but have some certs. Nonstructual repair and refinishing. Also in engine repair. Not sure why I even bothered with that one though. I-CAR I have my cert in structural. Are you a mechanic, bodyman, or a painter? Just curious.
Andy, We removed all the trim, vinyl roof, bumpers, and did all the body work as far as dings and dents. Yes, the door jams and trunk were done. The media blasting only cost 450.00 dollars and was one day turn around.
Wow, $450 to have a car media blasted is a good deal! It's around $800 here.... After it's blasted, you'll still have to sand the bare metal to remove any remaining residue, and smooth the surface. I like to use 80 or 120 grit on a DA sander. How do you guys feel about metal conditioners? I've been using Picklex to treat any remaining surface rust that won't sand out. It also works nicely as a temporary rust preventative for when you can't get primer on it for a few days. If the car is stored outside, epoxy primers will withstand weather better. But epoxy will eventually break down from sun /uv exposure. The PPG epoxys have gotten too expensive for me...I've used some off-brands with good results.
Darren, I hear ya, on using the products that you have become accustomed to! I had to be "talked into" trying the Valspar, as I haven't had any issues with the DP Epoxy. I checked out your website, & your right about your shop being clean! Looks great :TU: I am a mechanic at a Chevy dealer, the bodyman/painter is a "hobby" at home, it started when I couldn't afford to pay a pro to do it, so I tried my own, it must have turned out ok, as I've done several cars for other people now, :laugh: not quite ready to do it "full time" yet, but..... thinking about getting out of the dealership. The body ASE's was just basically to see if I could do it, since I did, the dealership has sent me to a few I-CAR classes as well(structural, non-structural, mechanical, Aluminum welding, and the Corvette Z06 class.) I also talked them into sending me to a PPG Deltron class(Blue cert. if I remember correctly) I was the only one qualified to go :laugh: figures, I'm more qualified then any of the guys in the body shop!
John, Sounds like your just as or even more qualified than me to do paint/body work. You would have to pick one or the other though more than likely. Not many shops have a guy that does both. It's pretty good pay but so is mechanical. I got paid 1 1/2 times my normal rate when I did mechanical, but didn't come out as far ahead doing it time wise, as body work. I started out the same way you did. Guess that's pretty typical. I worked at a shop until about 4-5 months ago, but always did it on the side too, because I don't know how to sit and watch TV :laugh: I enjoy working for myself and doing all the work. It does get a little manotness? doing the same thing all the time. I get some diversity this way. Good luck in a career change if you decide to do that. Which job is your preference, paint or body? Thanks for checking out my site. Wish I could update it more. If you checked out the Camaro, it's already done and gone. Working on "Samborarocks" (Harry's) car right now. He's been posting progress on here. I think that's pretty cool. Later Darren
