All Things Considered Jeff's Dad was the Top of the heap at PMD in his day. Nice seeing you at Woodward Jeff. Mr. Ram Air II. There is an upcoming article on a RA II. Be patient. My RA II car is going together but not at a quick pace. I am in the middle of building a new home and facility for the cars. Well actually the driveway just got started this week on the property. It will be in Muscle Car Enth. But we are out a ways. Next article is a 440+6 and I am currently writing the 455 HO/SD comparison. With four additional articles (409x409, 350 HO, Boss 302, '71 LS6 vs. '70 LS6) to slip in before the RA II. I like you, believe there is many merits to the RA II. That is why I am personally heading that way with a Pure Stocker. We need to keep the Chevy/Mopar contingent on their collective toes. And do it with much fewer cubes. Weight and weight distribution do play a large role in how well the RA II works, but the motor plays a large part in its success also. I have multiple pairs of RA II NOS heads that we will flow eventually to see how well they stack up to RA IV's. As I understand it they will be a bit unballanced towards the exhaust side. Mr. RA II do not forget that our dyno setup is much more conservative than what was done when new. We use a DTS dyno (one of the most conservative out there) and we test with the alternator on (unplugged), fuel pump on, water pump on, exhaust manifolds with pipes, and always finish with the air cleaner housing also. Our method is closer to SAE Net than the original SAE Gross ratings. These numbers more ideally match what the motor is like in the car than a typical dyno setup. It minimizes the peak numbers for realistic power numbers. RDL I will talk to Dan today about the disks. Mark
Fun? Donny I am trying. Someimes I think it is just overload. When are we adding the L79 to the list of motors to write about? It would be interesting as it likely is the best hydro cammed Chevy ever built. :beer I think it would be nice to have a 428/429 Ford also. Mark
When are you inviting me and my brother in law over ?? o No: he has a 429 SCJ Ram Air Mach 1, he's afraid to race it, but I could talk him into some dyno time, I bet...........
Dyno Time Donny let's talk at the race. I will put the motors forward to the Editor. Lets see what we come up with. Mark
Mark, Thanks for the detailed reply. I am salivating over your piece on the RA II already....BTW, what will the ra II be pitted against? I hope against something legendary... One question about your comments on your article hp numbers being conservative relative to how cars came from facory. That is interesting and surprising given the fact that your test compresssion ratio wereseemingly pushed up quite a bit over factory levels, no? (i.e. RA IV in your piece was 12:1 and ive read in a few places that if anything factory 10.75 was usually more than the factory put out (10: 1?) Thoughts on this? Take care, Joe (aka 'mr RA II') : ) BTW my RA II was in MCE in september (aug?) 2004....I will see if my techo capabilties will enable me to post a few pics her ein a few minutes..hope they come thru!
ok options on my RA II...car is matching #s and a Van Nuys Build RA II ...06A car... M21 4spd (a 'mandatory' option really...TH400 or M21) 390s (also mandatory) tinted glass push button am radio deluxe BENCH seat interior (1 of 1?)..saved weight too! redlines (no cost 'option') no rallyes (more weight saving)...no ps no pb no power anything! ...just go fast look plain jane and win money on the street baby! : )
ps PHS says zone 18 dealer 423...i think zone 18 = Atlanta/southeast...delar 423 is a mystery to me... can anybody help with these codes? much thanx! 2 more pics...here is deluxe bench seat with 4speed!
Hi Everyone, I couldn't resist weighing on this one. No doubt RA II's are bad. F-body '68's do have an advantage with their long branch manifolds (add 8-10 hp over A-body type), easy 500 lb weight advantage over the a-body, the iron 4-bbl intakes have recently been shown to flow better than the RA IV alum., and the RA II exhaust ports were also shown in an early Pete McCarthy article to out-flow any other production head, even RA IV's. I do believe there is little, or no advantage to having 1.65 rockers over the 1.5's. If you compare the rear wheel horsepower listings from the PSMCDR results, Marks and my car are 415 hp & 406 hp respectfully. Tony's RA II was 390-ish if I'm not mistaken. Mark's and my RA IV's (old motor's) compression ratios are in the high 10's to almost 11.0:1 and 0.030" over (406's). Tony's motor is 12:1 compression. All in all, both RA II & IV are pretty evenly matched in the F-body and slightly disadvantaged in the A-body, not to mention the extra girth. My car is the '70 red RA IV Judge that ran 12.88 @ 109.11 best so far with auto and std. 3.90 gears. I would love to swap in 4.33's to see what she would do. Very cool car RA2...they don't come much better than that!
OK, here's a dumb question from an Old (s) peson. Why all the talk about RA II and RA III, and nothing about a RA III? Was there such an animal? How's about a RA I?
Things Joe the RA II article will be a stand alone at this time. Any suggestions on what to compare it with? Most Pontiac's run 0.50 piont of compression below advertised. This would give a 10.25 to 1 for most 10.75 to 1 advertised cars. My Judge is at 10.6 to 1. It has stock 72cc heads, 4cc valve reliefs, a zero'd deck, and +.030 bore. Joe you are allowed to use NHRA stock class blue print specs for you Pure Stock motor. With the exception that Dan and Bob hold camshafts to tighter specs. If you want to see the specs you can take a RA II for Pure Stock racing go to NHRA.com. Find the tech section, pull up "blue print specs", go to Pontiac section, pull up 1968 year and look for the Firebird 340 hp section. With a +.060 bore, zero'd deck, 2.5cc valve reliefs, heads with 2cc'c left above minimum you get 11.66 to 1 max compression allowed. I enjoyed the article when it came out. I love your car. My build up is for a radio/heater delete, with 4spd no console and painted in Nightshade green. It is an unrestored car with one (old) repaint. It just needs detialing and new paint. Perfectly rust free. Absolutely none. The paint is ugly, and someone hacked speakers in with an aftermarket radio. So it needs door panels and package tray replaced and the delete plate put in. Dave, the RA I and RA III are esentially identiacal. They did update the heads modestly, and after the first half of '69 the 301/313 cam was dropped from the 4spd cars. It changed to the 288/302 cam the auto's ran and continued that way through '70. The RA IV was an evolution of the RA II. Updated heads, two piece aluminum intake, and 1.65 ratio rockers as the main changes. Dave you find an M21 yet? Dennis hope to see you in a few days. I did not get the chance to thank you for driving the SD for me this spring, Thanks. Mark
RA II Birds It was asked earlier if the new owner of Tony's car would be racing it. His name is Rick Watson and yes he is bring the car to Stanton he told Dan. Joe is your last name Cione? We talked through Dan Jensen last fall if it is. RDL I came up empty on airflow ratio's. I talked to Dan and we do not have it saved. Sorry. Dennis I am bringing the Judge, maybe we can pair up this year. We run so close to each other now. It would be a good looking shootout with two RA IV Judges running each other. Mark
Sure is, Mark. Ive known Dan for years, he is a stand up guy. Did we talk or communicate via email? Apparently Im getting a bit old! : ) As for comparison test for the RA II article. I think a bold statement is in order and given your other 4 articles in the queue I'd say the one muscle plant missing is the 426 elephant Hemi motor. Some PMDers would be frightened to do such a comparison but I say bring it on! I am betting many a jaw will drop when they see/realize the RA II output is likely to be 'on par' (or greater?) then the legendary Hemi. I will add this related RA II/Hemi tidbit. Previous owner of my car said he feared no one when he street raced his RA II. He laughed when i said "hemi cars included"? "Hemis, he responded, on the street were for the most part dogs. Very tempermental and lots of teweaking/tuning to keep them competetive..." He did say that a '67 427/435 vette gave him a run for his money one time. (But in the end he still took him!) : ) (I love this type of stuff!) Keep up the great work...I cant beleive its taken this long to do these controled dyno comparisons of the great 60s/70s motors in print but I'm glad you took the bull by the horn (and that MCE is funding this type of stuff!) Joe Cione PS Just my $0.02...After the RA II (or RA II/Hemi?) piece I think giving the Stage I some print/dyno time would be very interesting as well. Fitting for this site in particular!
Thanks anyway Mark. I was just curious for comparitive reasons. Hope to see you in a couple of weeks.
Mark: Yes, we put an M21 in it ;last month and I love driving it, but still having problems with shifter lockup/clashing going into reverse, etc. Not sure what's going on. So is RAIII a step backwards from Ram Air II? I don't recall which one it was, but the Olds engineers set up the Pontiac development people in the Fall of 1967 at GM Proving grounds when they were on the agenda of cross divisional engineering meetings there. Told the story to Jeff's Dad, John, and I don't think he was happy with it. Basic big time GM corporate politics that resulted in the W31 being released for production, an enhancement in the career of Bob Stempel, and a little egg on the face of Pontiac. So when you want to do a dyno story on a W31? Happen to have one right now that could easily be available over the winter (after Stanton). :Brow: :Brow:
RA II/Hemi Joe I have had a '68 Hemi Coronet R/T for many years. I have been looking for an excuse to do something with it. Maybe this could be the motivation I need. I like driving the car, and it is of driver quality. I have had all the parts needed for years now to do the job. Just no motivation to take a nice driver Hemi out of circulation. I know I would not shy away from a Hemi when racing and I own two. That is why I race six barrels when racing Mopars. Much easier cars. Fast too. Joe, Dan called you wondering if you had a line on a RA II for me. It may have been Jim Mattison who called but I think it was Dan. Both were helping me out. You wished us luck, which is definitly needed when trying to find a RA II bird. RDL I hope to meet you at the race lets take the time to say high. And show me your car. Mark
Dave H I buy into a W31 dyno article. Give me a chance to make Casey do some work! You and I could stand around and do nothing while we made Casey do everything from tuning to cam timing changes. Of course we would need about 12 changes to the cam just to see him sweat. :beer The RA II was definitly the more potent motor. The RA III was likely a better street motor. The RA II is the first round port motor and the RA III retianed the D ports. Mark
Yes Mark, Dan did drop me an email about a buddy looking for a RA II (I had no idea it was you). I am pretty sure Dan didnt mention you by name. As you know they are tough to come by for sure. Took me forever and I still needed some luck! BTW I also recently had another guy (Jody?) say hes looking for a buddy too (maybe he is your friend also?) I think his name is Jody? Ok, thats why I didnt recognize you! : ) Dan has also helped in the past helpoing hunt down RA components as I neede them (mosty for my RA 1 coupe some years back). Great guy. As for the RA II dyno piece, I think that Hemi-RA II comparison would be UNREAL and one you gotta push! Hey btw do you rebuild other peoples motors on the side? If so I need to catch up with you off line sometime...I'd like to run my RA II at the PSD someday soon but I want to pickup another RA II motor/set up and built it right per PSD rules...(yeah im a but gun-shy using the original matching RA II block) ; ) Joe
That's going to leave a mark. Let me calculate how much beer that's going to take! :beer :beer :beer :beer :beer Car has never been more stock except for the first fatal run at Pure Stock in 1999 (when we blew out the driveshaft and nuked the bellhousing. Good time to do it. All is fresh. This thing would be a killer 1/8 mile car. :Brow: :Brow:
