Howdy, has anyone ever converted a rear steer Riviera over to a front steer? I'm thinking that it might be more effective to convert a 65 Riviera over to a front steer than to slice and dice the oil pan on the Turbo 6 thats going in it to clear the steering linkage and crossmember. I was thinking 90's B-Body, ie Impala SS, but I don't know if that would even really work or not. Thanks,
wow, now there's outside the box thinking. i wonder how many people are even going to grok what you're talking about? :laugh: i have no idea how to accomplish that or what spindles/linkages could be used.
um.... what the heck is grok? And the idea is to change everything over with the possible exception of a different centerlink to accomidate the different track width
all 63-70 Riveras have the steering linkages behind the spindles instead of in front of them like an A-body or G-body and your Lesabres as the 63-70 Rivieras all use the older X-frames vs the newer perimeter frames found under 66 on full frame Buicks.
Whew! for a minute there I thought you were talking of making the rear wheels steer the car! :error: ou: What do you intend to accomplish by moving the center link from a position behind the spindles to one in front of the spindles? I don't see what that would do except cause you a lot of headaches? o No: Slicing and dicing the oil pan would be easier and a safer modification. Besides, whatwould you want to put a 6 into a big car for? That seems like a no brainer to me.......the car's too heavy. :Smarty:
The 65-70 LeSabre-Wildcat-Electra (with perimeter frames) also have their steering boxes mounted behind the spindles. In fact they have a front suspension/direction that is very similar to what's found on the X framed Rivieras. Only the 71 and newer full size Buicks have their steering boxes mounted in front. I don't see how the steering box could be mounted in front on the 60's frames (see the pic of my 65 Wildcat). Also the steering column would require some serious modifications... Fitting a turbo V6 in a Nailhead powered Buick isn't going to be the easiest way to get better performance (unless you want better fuel economy!). What kind of transmission are you planning to use? What kind (year) of turbo 6 do you have?
Everyone seems to think that about the 1st Gen Rivieras, "they are too heavy", "they are too big". If you look up the weight of a 65 Riviera its only listed at 4200lbs and thats with an 800lb nailhead in the nose. The list weight on a fully loaded Grand National is 4100lbs with a 400lb Tubro-6 in the nose. For whatever reason the weight of the Riviera ballooned after 65, being the worst in 67 and 70. Besides the V6 will be making 450hp on pump gas and 600hp on alky or race gas. While I know you can get it out of a nailhead or 455 but I want to do a more effecient and definately more interesting though. I'm using an 84 4.1 with the EFI stuff off of an 86 GN I picked up. The major hang ups I see are the oil pan and gas tank, Hense I looking for an beat up but not useable nailhead oilpan so I can start the process of cleanancing my existing oil pan.
I thought you were talking about rear wheel steering...ok I see now. My 70 LeSabre has rear linkage steering like you're saying. If you're doing such a complicated change over, why not just pull the front clip off a Regal or GN and fabricate the hell out of it till it fits your x frame?
Well I'd like to just slice the oilpan but I might be left with insufficent sump volume and going to a B-body front clip would allow the use of the common and correct bolt pattern front rotors. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to slice up the oil pan but I wanted to see if anyone had done it.
This will be quite a car once it is complete. I'm with you, and I know that the turbo motor is quite capable of handling the job in that car. It will fly with just a few mods. Overall, it is very similar to the GN in terms or weight. Another possibility would be an aftermarket street rod clip with a Mustang II type of rack and pinion. This would allow the removal of the box, strut rods, etc. as well as freeing up plenty of room around the oil pan. Plenty of the semi universal kits are in the sub $1500 area depending on what you select. Good luck, Rudy E
Go Buick Go nailheadina67 see, that's what i was talking about. just referring to the linkage as 'rear' or 'front' steer confuses a lot of people because they have no idea the link was moved in front of the crossmember from behind in the early 70s. read this to Grok grok :bglasses:
You are right, 60's cars were much lighter than 70's cars. Here is what's written on my car's certificates of registration: My 65 Wildcat 4 door hardtop weights 1 871 KG (x 2.2 = 4 116 lbs) My 67 Riviera GS weights 1 904 KG (x 2.2 = 4 189 lbs) My 74 LeSabre weights 2 019 KG (x 2.2 = 4 442 lbs) My 75 Electra weights 2 234 KG (x 2.2 = 4 915 lbs)
I don't think 4200 lbs is so bad either........but how much does a GNX weigh? I'll bet it's a lot lighter than that. Putting a v-6 into a big car is just plain stupid IMHO.........it's like pulling a trailer with a Geo Metro. :laugh:
GNX weights about 3800lbs. Most of its performance improvements came from the metaloceramic turbocharger components, increased effeciency intercooler, more agressive computer tuning, and probably most significantly the entirely different rear suspension setup that is totally unique among G-bodies to the GNX.The fender vents are largely there as a selling point to Buick management to envoke the "portholes" of older Buicks to get that car past the new Buick management that was anti-performance, though they did have the decency to make them fuctional. Here's a question for you, why did you put an older, less effecient, and heavier nailhead into a car designed to hold the next generation of Buick power the BBB? Unless you want to go to casting codes its impossible to tell a 400-430-455 apart so you could have built a rip roaring 455 that made more power, cheaper, and got better gas mileage than doing your abiet cool but ancient 465 superwildcat. You dide it because it's unusual, cool, you already had one.... those kind of reasons. Exactly why I'm doing a 65 Riviera with turbo 6 power. Considering I make 400lb-ft of torque at below 3000 rpm with a turbo 6 I'm not particularly scared of the mismatch. Now that I have defended my possition on why I want to do it.... please refrain from questioning the why and answer my question of has anyone or is converting the oil pan a better thing to modify? Thanks,
I don't consider a motor plagued with oiling problems that's prone to cracked heads more efficient........however to answer your question, slice the oil pan. In the long run that's the easiest way to go. :bglasses:
Using the spindles from a 71 up 'B' body would also give you a nice disc brake setup. Modifying the frame for the steering box shouldn't be a real problem or you could fit a rack off a late model. Weight wise it would be less than a mid 90's Riv with the SC V6.
has anyone addressed the issue of rear steer cars having lower control arms that are more forward mounted to be out of the way of the rear steer linkage and front steer cars have the lower control arms mounted more rearward to stay out of the way of the front steer components? converting a car the opposite way would probably require some sort of lower control arm fabbing/relocating .... life's too short already. if you are putting a V6 mojo in the big ol" engine compartment, why not use up some of that extra room with a dry-sump system? surely some place sells them for that mojo.... and considering the time you would save trying to convert the steering system, there is no way the dry-sump could not be cost effective..... even if it is cast from solid gold :Brow:
