Taking a recent post into account talking about some new "PURE STOCK" vehicles coming out to the PSMCDR running in the mid-low 11's, This poll wants to know your opinion regarding the MANDATORY use of roll cages for PSMCDR entrants. Track rules call for a cage for ANY car running 11.49 or better. Please spare us the 11.55 @ 84mph timeslips with the brake lights on from the 1000 foot mark to get around the safety rules. Not to beat up the guys aiming to run in the 11's, but, to me, a roll cage (or a time slip requiring a cage) in PSMCDR means instant ejection from the event.
If I have to have a cage at a certain speed/et so should everyone that runs that fast. Its about safety nothing else. now I will say this, if a guy is just on the edge of that et/speed leave it to the owner, but once that has been passed it should be required as it is for everyone else.
Not sure what the rules are as to when you need to have a roll bar but I would think the guys that are running the speed would want one for the safety part of it. I will never have to be worried about that.My car is a slug.
Who would be liable if somebody gets hurt, or killed in an 11 second car? :error: We may not have a choice if the track or insurance carrier decides we have to have a cage, or refuses to pay. We can be "purists" and demand no cages, and effectively eliminate any sub 11.50 cars. Or we can let someone get hurt and destroy the whole thing, as in no more racing...."it's too dangerous." Most tracks I have run in the past few years require roll bars and jackets below 12.00 seconds. I agree that roll cages belong in race cars, however I think most people look better with their heads on their sholders. An 11 second "Pure Stocker" is a race car, like it or not.
Safety isn't the main issue (though it is important!). If factory race cars are not allowed in PSMCDR, then why should race car equipment be allowed?? What next? Wheelie bars? A roll cage takes away from the purity of the event: PURE STOCK. I remember when FAST first started and the guys wrestled with the idea of cages. With their event "set-up" and the speeds they were running, then YES cages were needed. But PSMCDR should IMHO not allow the use of cages to maintain the purity of the event. If that means your car is too fast, then it needs to be run in F.A.S.T./F.S. events where the use of cages is allowed. I get just as much enjoyment watching the front row run as much as the back row running at PSMCDR. It electrifies the crowd when a 11 second run is made. I like watching it happen too. But, roll cages are NOT "stock" in MY opinion. Besides, I couldn't let Stan Palma have all the fun with posting up "hand grenade" subjects on here!! :3gears:
difficult call;on one hand you worries about the safety of the few cars running inthe sub 11;50 mark.But ,then again a purestocker with a roll cage doesn;t seem to fit a purestocker;I expect my 68 396/375 nova to run easily into the 12's but I don;t think my car has any worries about 11's.Chris teed
Fire in the hole!!!!!!!!:laugh: I'm going to sit back and watch this one. Buuuuuttttttttttttt You can't have 2 FAST classes F.A.S.T pure stock and honest people F.A.S.T class.ou: o No: Frank get used to hearing " your and A hole":laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Tim: Wouldn't be the first time, and it won't be the last!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Read your post about your accident. Glad you and your Dad came out of there OK! Makes all this PSMCDR huffing and puffing seem trivial. :beers2:
I think the word pure has been abused for the last few years.Maybee its time to change the name or call it NHRA style legal (Pure ?)stock.
5 maybe 6 posts leaning toward requiring it if the track rules dictate it, but only 4 votes that way. Interesting.....Legality or not, a serious accident seriously threatens this style of racing, and heaven forbid a really bad one that could have been walked away from with a roll cage. That would kill it. Running that fast on these tires is dangerous enough. Even though I don't (since my car is such a slug now), I also think helmets should be required of all cars. You adjust to it. Guess you can tell where my vote is....... Back to nap....:sleep:
Rollbars? Bring it. I have no problem with them or sub-11.50's. We already have 'race car parts'. Scatter shields (optional); and Driveshaft loops (required on 13.99 or quicker).
I'm not voting, but one slight clarification: Roll Bars are being discussed here. They consist of the main hoop, rear braces and side bars. Roll Cages include the front halo bar and bars down the A pillar. They are required at 9.99. There is a distinction in the NHRA rulebook. FWIW - K
Keith and Michael are correct. I mispoke. Bars being the operative word, not cages. The thing with the cage rule is you can stiffen the chassis of a unit bodied car enough with a cage to actually make it faster. Not so with the bars. Also you have to chop a car up seriously to use the cage, not so much with a bar. I personally am nowhere near fast enough to need a bar or cage, so maybe I ought to shut up. All I can add is that I don't want to see someone get hurt, when it could be avoided. If it's serious enough it will put an end to the racing, end of story.
What are the track rules concerning roll bars/cages and convertibles? IIRC, I was told that a convertible breaking 13.99 was required to have one. I know my car isn't the only 'vert in the 13s. I get a "pass" at Stanton and the Buick events, but assume I'd have problems at a new track running below 13.99 (if track personnel are paying attention, and I remember the rules correctly). Tough call to make: retain the spirit of the event and keep the most participants coming back vs. keeping racers safe and meeting the track/safety/insurance requirements. o No:
bear with me, but years ago I was asking about running a 12 bolt chevy rear with c-clip eliminators in a BOP car. Obviously c-clip eliminators are not "pure stock". However, given that it was a safety change/upgrade, there was no issue. There always have been no issues with safety changes/upgrades and I don't believe this stance has changed. Now roll bars/cages, while being for safety, obviously are a little more visable than say a driveshaft loop or c-clip eliminators. So I think it's a tough call given the "spirit" of the phrase "pure stock". I think Frank more or less summed it up. obviously with the cage/bar correction As much as we may or may not want to do something, common sense has to come in play somehow. Of course the discussion was about _mandatory_ roll cages (even though I think bars was what was really meant). Given the term mandatory, I'd lean towards no, don't make roll bars mandatory. But I think the final verdict really comes from the track. They may let you run once and when they realize the speed/et of the car and no bar is installed, you'll be kindly asked to leave and not come back until a bar is installed.
Probably wasn't to many cars made that had a factory issued part number for a roll bar back in the day, Shelby convertibles might have been about the only ones that I can recall, and it was more for stylin' than function. Good place to strap down your surfboard and head off to find some tasty waves. I guess in my opinion if you run fast enough to require a roll bar by the rules then you own a race car and not a "pure stock" car that is built within the spirit of the PSMCDR rules.
Big difference in a C clip eliminator which isn't visible( and really is a safety item that doesn't enhance performance...like driveshaft loops, Lakewood scatter shields, etc.) and a roll bar. They do look "cool" at a cruise, though, don't they? :laugh: :laugh: What do you think when you see a roll bar in a car....?????anyone? Bueller, Bueller?... How about race car? These cars are supposed to at least look stock...... but there weren't too many production cars running the tires we do and the times some are running today (my slug included)..... As far as C clip eliminators, etc., don't ask questions that you may not like the answer. You wouldn't get thrown out for having them, but very difficult for the tech crew to say, "yeah, it's OK." If you start running times that a car like yours shouldn't run in stock, or near stock I have 3 Chev 12 bolts that I've run through the Ramrod with various engine combinations (3.90. 4.10,and 4.56). None has a C clip eliminator. If we were running slicks, that would be another story, but I really don't think the drive train sees anywhere near the loading on the axle shafts with these tires like you would on a race car.....especially with an automatic. ....maybe one with a roll bar :Brow: ......
