Before you spend any money, I would make sure your vacuum advance and mechanical advance are functioning! You really have to worry about total timing, not initial. In your case, you gotta find out 1) How much initial timing do you have? 2) How much mech advance, and what RPM does it come "all in"? 3) How much vacuum advance? I really think you gotta check that out before you spend money, or you'll be chasing your tail. Having insufficient timing will make you run hot. Or, you might be running lean. -Bob Cunningham
Bob,even i f i let the car idle it will start to creep up,my initial is 2 1/2* so i dont think that the timing is the issue,i checked the springs,bushings,when i give it gas you can see it moving so all that is working well. Thanks
George, If a car overheats at idle, it is generally due to a lack of airflow (low fan speed, etc.). I'm not too worried about that for now. On the highway, you should have plenty of airflow and cooling. If you are running hot on the highway, then I suspect you have a tuning issue. If you don't fix that, you might burn up your exhaust valves or something. I don't understand why you only have 2.5 degrees at idle- most BBB engines that I have worked on have 10-12 degrees initial, but like I said previously you should have 50 or so on the highway. I guess it all depends on your distributor- if you have 22 degrees of mech advance, then your "total" timing at the track is only gonna be 24.5 degrees. Seems like you are missing out on some power there too. Maybe you have a distributor that has 32 degrees of mechanical advance? How do you see the springs & bushings moving when you hit the gas? Do you have one of those clear distributor caps? If so, isn't it all moving really fast in there? I've never actually seen one run, I don't know how you would be able to tell what's going on with it all spinning so fast. Do what you want, you know my thoughts. -Bob Cunningham p.s. On my FI car, my initial timing is about 22 degrees.
Bob,401 nailheads timing is 2 1/2 * btc at idle with vacuum hose disconnected,it says this in my buick service manual also? Thanks
George, If I remember corectly I read somewhere that the light to warn of a hot engine wont come on until the temp reaches 240 degrees. I will see if I can find out where I red that. My 65 GS now has a 4 row radiator and around 8500 miles since overhaul and gets up to 210/220 in traffic wirh AC on. Take care George. Bill Bailey
George, Here is a note from the 65 BUICK service manual Chassis-4300 and 4400 models electrical systems page marked 10-68, "e. Temperature indicator "If the engine cooling system is not functioning properly and the water temperature should reach 248 degrees F; the "Temp" indicator will be turned on by the temperature switch." Also, The Buick servive manual for the "Gran Sport all models" Engine cooling system page 2-11 states, " A temperature sensitive switch is located in the right cylinder head. Engine water temperaature above 245 degrees causes the set of contacts to close and light a red signal on the instrument panel." I have one more bit for you. Page 2-18 Trouble diagnosis same book. " It must be remembered that the Buick pressure system operates at a higher temperature than systems operating at atmospheric pressure. Depending on the pressure in cooling system, the temperature of water or permanent type anti freeze may go considerably above 212 degrees F without danger of boiling" I don't know if this helps, but I thought I would let you decide if this is useful information to you. I would think, if you are not boiling and loosing fluid, and your temp warning indicator light is not lit you could be OK. Good luck to you George. Bill Bailey
Stupid question... is 210 all the hottest it gets???? Even in stop and go driving? 50 degrees outsidee or 80+ outside? If it never goes above 210 then I wouldnt worry about it too much... Esp after reading Bills post...
it will go to 210 but if i stay in traffic unmoved it will go higher slowly,i understand that the manual says what it says but i really dont feel comfortable driving in those engine temps. Thanks
Maybe the engineers at Buick decided to go with warning lights instead of gages for a good reason, our peace of mind. Out of sight out of mind. What do you think???. Bill Bailey
George, Advancing the timing at idle and above will make it run cooler. Yes the initial timing may be 2 1/2*, but if memory serves me, that engine uses manifold vacuum for vacuum advance. Is the vacuum cannister working? Verify that you have manifold vaccum to the cannister, then disconnect it with the engine running. The idle should drop off considerably, and you should see it with a timing light. If not, the cannister diaphram is shot, and your timing will be retarded at idle and at higher RPM's. Also, even though you flushed that original radiator, it may not be up to the task. Get a new one. Just my .02
vacuum advance is working,i checked every single possibility that may make it run hot,i just installed a Flowkooler water pump today,i`ll let you know in the next couple of days how its running. Thanks
I read much more than I post, but having grown up around naiheads I would say that's a strong possibility. This thread reminded me of my ole' service manager days...the '57 models indicated high temps, so when a customer became concerned during the warranty period (4000 miles or 90 days), Buick furnished us a 'recalibrated' gauge which we installed (labor intensive). This 'fixed' the customer's 'mental state' and everyone was happy. Bill's service manual research is right on, of course. My guess is one can throw all kinds of money at a 401/425 in an attempt to feel 'comfortable', but will never see a true 180* reading at full operating temp (unless you 'recalibrate' the gauge). :grin: It's been my experience that when ANY engine TRULY overheats, it's apparent right away by the spewing, gurgling, hissing, steam cloud, smoke in the rear view mirror and/or some new 'tapping noises'. Buick did, in fact, purposely have their engines running 'near the edge'. True enough, if a hose ruptures and all the coolant gushes out, don't expect to see the idiot light, but by the same token most folks wouldn't be staring at an analog gauge under those conditions either. Another bit of trivia from the old days...more than once I have seen a nailhead so hot it literally 'locked up'. Once the leak was repaired, oil changed and cooled down, started/ran normally with no apparent damage or unusual noises from that time forward. Also, fan clutches were a weak point for many years...be very suspicious...even with a new one. I'm sure most of you already know about the water pump cavitation problem, so I won't go there.
George, It was my understanding that overheating in traffic is an airflow problem, and overheating at highway speed is a capacity issue. Retarded timing, and lean A/F ratios can also contribute to excessive heat. As stated on the yahoo board: nailheads often run better with std water pumps (not AC version), and the larger dia non-AC pulleys. Water flowing too fast thru the rad won't have enough time to give up its heat.... It has to stay there awhile to transfer its heat to the rad tubes/fins/airflow... My blue car runs a bit hot. 210 in traffic wasn't unusual... I'd put it in neutral, idle it higher, and put the heater on. After I blew up my second flex fan (and fan shroud, and a few rows of rad tubes!), I went back to the slower non AC pulley, and a mid 80's V6 Regal fan clutch with a Caddy 7 blade fan. So, far it's okay, but I haven't driven it much on hot days. Still want to add a shroud. A 300 shroud fits if you turn it upside down, and trim off an inch or two....I had one but the over-flexed fan tore it to pieces. Summit has a Griffin alum rad for under $200....it's for a Ford application and fits the 65-66 GS rad support perfectly. Two wide rows produce 4 row thickness. It just doesn't have a drain. I bought one but haven't used it yet.... Check out Griffins faq pages for some good info. http://griffinrad.com/faq.php Stock radiators avail from: http://www.usradiator.com/cbuick.htm Hey, you bought an alum rad, didn't you? And what fan are you using??
Yes,i bought a Be Cool aluminum rad. off ebay,and also bought a Flowkooler water pump,i instaled the water pump but i havent driven it yet, i will take her out this weekend and see,i theres a 7 blade direct fan on the engine. Thanks
I forgot to mention that i will run the car without the aluminum radiator and only with the new water pump just to see any difference,i had ordered a 4 core last week they told me 3-6 weeks till i get it so i got the Be Cool till they 4 core comes in,i prefer to keep this car looking stock,but they called me and will be here next week apparently they`ve located one so the Be Cool is for sale if anyone is interested. Thanks
George, It may sound stupid but what's the coolant-antifreeze ratio? 50-50 is just for us Canucks with -40*C. I run an 80-20 mix in the summer, then drop in 50-50 in September. You will get optimum cooling with straight distilled water + corrosion inhibitor, but a 20-80 mix should be OK for the summer-fall.
Try it.. George, try putting anti-freeze in the coolant. I have always mixed mine 2:1 anti-freeze to water. Optimum freezing prevention and cooling. Used this mix while I was in Alaska and never had a problem either way. Saw temperature extremes of 101* in the summer and -65* in winter. Water just doesn't have the cooling qualities as anti-freeze. Let us know how it goes.:Smarty:
Re: Try it.. I've always read water (with a little 'water wetter' for cooling system lubrication) diffuses heat better than water o No:
