Paul, go out and get the car to die again. When it does, jump out and see if you have any accelerator pump shot by working the throttle. This will let you know if it's fuel or spark related. You now have cut possible causes by 50%.....o No: Once you know which is failing(fuel or spark) it's a matter of narrowing it down piece by piece.Let us know how you make out
problems Paul - That cap is NOT vented, hence the warning. Al's right, you need to narrow down the problem otherwise you will be replacing parts without fixing the problem and wasting time and money! Having said that, have you looked at the gas filter and/or cleaned it? - Bill :TU:
Next piece of the puzzle... After getting home and stewing about the problem for a while, I looked at the old coil that I had removed. I noticed that the "red" wire was burned. The insulation was about melted away and the wire was just hanging together by a string...in fact, just handling it a little bit and it broke off completely. My brother came from Jersey to help me diagnose...he suggested that we look at the new coil...sure enough, the white wire was already scorched. Apparently the wire rests on the metal part of the coil and for some reason that is getting hot enough to burn the wire. This is a picture of the old coil...
New coil here is a picture of the new coil... I guess the question is, what is making the coil SO hot that it would cause this? Is my MSD 6AL too strong for a stock coil?
Fuel filter I did clean the fuel filter and it seemed clean...no debris that I could discern. If it happens again, I will check the accelerator pump to be sure that I am getting fuel. I am just not confident in taking this thing to Salem.:rant:
Ok, I think I am missing something here or something is new. From my background on ignitions, you need one coil and one trigger (points or magnetic pulse trigger). If you have an MSD then you don't need a coil in the HEI. The MSD is the coil ! So, from what you stated above you have two coils! I think they are the problem. All you need is a magetic pick-up from the HEI and no coil in the HEI cap. I think the MSD is overloading/overheating the HEI coil causing all your problems. I bet if you install a points distributor w/MSD, your problems will be solved. I would appreciate if someone can clear this up for me!
Paul, make sure your ground strap is in the cap. I saw exactly this same thing once before and it was because a previous mechanic had thrown the strap away with the old cap while doing a tune-up. The black wire you show in the picture will take the ground to the outer coil bracket, but you need the strap to take the ground to the plug of the cap....o No:
George, I think what Paul means is he uses an MSD 6AL box but not an MSD coil. He probably uses the factory HEI coil-in-cap along with the pick-up. Just replaces the factory ignition module with the MSD box.
Al is right... Sorry...I do have the dreaded GM HEI coil in the cap. I do not have a module in the HEI distributor though. Jim Haas...I just may try that tomorrow.:bglasses: Do you really think the MSD may be the issue? Just get it on the road.
From the MSD site:MSD 6AL Ignition Control w/Rev Limiter, 4, 6 (even-fire only) 8-Cylinder PN 6420 OPERATING SPECIFICATIONS Operating Voltage: +10-18 VDC Negative Ground Current Requirements: 5 Amps-5,000 RPM 10 Amps-10,000 RPM RPM Range: 15,000 RPM with 14.4 Volts Spark Duration: 20 Crankshaft Rotation Energy Output Max: 105-115 mJ Per Spark Weight and Size: 3 lbs, 8"Lx4"Wx2.25"H Voltage Output Max: Primary: 460-480 Volts Secondary: 45,000 Volts ------------------------------------------- The MSD ignition control is basically a micro-circuit attached to a coil. So, Paul has a doubled coiled ignition and the MSD is overloading the HEI coil. He does not need the HEI coil. He can use the HEI module/trigger for the MSD but he probably needs a special distributor cap for the HEI distributor w/o coil in cap. From pictires of his wires, he is pushing excessive current through the wires burning the insulation. A quick fix would be to disconnect the MSD entirely and see if the engine/car quits. I bet it does not.
Al, I just sent you a PM with the wire configuration that I have. There is only the one black or ground wire that attaches with the screw that holds the coil in place.
George, I'm still not getting the double coiled thing. I agree he needs to get rid of the coil-in-cap and switching back to the factory module may cure his problem, but I'm just not seeing were he's double coiled. He's not running a MSD coil at all from what I can tell. Am I just thick?...:grin:
Al, he stated he has an MSD6AL and the HEI coil, that is two coils. As I stated previously, he has the MSD 6AL which is a micro-circuit attached to a coil. I think if Paul removes the MSD all together, then he will solve his problem.
Even with the MSD 6AL you still need a coil. Now, I don't know about the HEI coil, but Distributor Dave recommends the NAPA coil, which is what I run. And it runs well. The MSD box has wires that go to the coil.
Why not grab a $60 accell super coil from auto zone or who ever. They stock the HEI ones. N you still need a coil with an msd box. But MSD would recommend their coil.
Ohh and id try running it without the coil cover cap. Just screw in the coil n leave the protective cap off. You can run the car without that part. See how or where its doing it. Maybe its spark leak. coils can leak funny from some pre foul plug or flaky wires. On even new parts and the coil with leak spark in funny places. Maybe it is spark leaking to the wire and cooking it? Checking things in the dark will help.
