Sealer, base and clear advice please

Discussion in 'Color is everything!' started by techg8, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    I would love to have anyones insights and advise as relates to applying the last coats onto my 72 BS GS. Sealer, Base and Clear

    This thread is the continuation of my Eastwood 2k primer surfacer thread.

    Here is the current status:

    The whole car was surfaced with Eastwood 2k primer surfacer.
    I have block sanded with 400 grit (dry)
    shop vac'd lots of dust off.
    Wiped with tack rags.

    Is there any more prep I should do before applying the sealer? should I go finer with the sandpaper?
    Should I rinse with water and dry?

    For the sealer I am using a reduced Eastwood Epoxy primer. It is a 1:1 mix to much should I reduce to get it nice and flat? I will be doing test sprays on an extra hood I have to set up the gun...what should I be looking for? How many coats of sealer??

    I hope to spray color right onto the sealer if it lays flat enough. Should I sand? Or how long should I let the epoxy dry before color (eastwood says I don't have to sand within 5 days I think)

    I am assuming I will not sand the color.

    How long should I wait to spray the clear? how many coats?
    If / When I go to wetsand the clear, what grit am I looking at?

    Thanks for any advice, tips, tricks, etc etc
  2. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Sand with 500 wet and a soft sponge

    Psi wash

    Wipe with a wax grease remover or rubbing alcohol before sealing, put some alcohol in a spray bottle works well

    Tack as you blow it off, fluff tack rack up first, change sides occasionally

    Sealer, it should be consistent with Milk in thickness
    No need to sand unless something happens to a certain area, sealer is designed to be applied wet on wet

    Open spray pattern to as wide as it will go without having thin spots in the pattern.
    Do this by putting thinner in the cup hold up so you can see the pattern

    Move quick enough to put a even coat on doesn't have to be "completely" covered but close to it, repeat if you wish

    Base depends on the color, but pattern should be as described above, don't try to make it the color in o e or two coats, it may take 4 and that's fine.
    Move slow enough for the metallic to lay and settle but not so slow it builds and streaks, do not stop at the end of the panel Blow over several inches on each panel.
    Distance depends on the gun but no less than 10in , maintain that distance no matter the shape, make sure the pattern is landing square to the panel no gun tilting.
    Can't sand metallic base without topcoating
    You can sand a solid color but your playing fire risking going thru and running the clear on the first coat which is not good.

    Clear: let base flash then blow and tack twice, then take light air psi and blow surface off

    First coat depends on the clear but play it safe and do a medium coat concentrate on a even coat vs wet coat,
    Second coat go slower
    Third coat same as second or if you feel good about it turn psi up just a little and hammer it.
    If your going to cut and buff concentrate on nice even coats no runs and no really dry areas, if it's heavy looking b4 you buff it will be heavy looking afterwards

    Color sanding:
    1200grit semi firm sponge OR if you feel like you are confident in your blocking skills, a flat paintstick or durublock , then go over with the semifirm sponge
    If you opt not to block which I recommend for where your at you will then go to 1500with the semifirm
    Then 2000 with the soft sponge
    Tben2500 with the soft sponge OR even folded over a scotchbrite pad or bare hand.

    I could go on and on but that's the high spots
    techg8 and Smartin like this.
  3. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    I did a full day grind today. finally sitting down.

    I did some final touch ups with spot putty and filler, then hit those spots with more hi build. Sanded the touchups and cleaned up with a tack rag.

    Then I wiped down with wax grease silicone remover, and tack ragged again.

    While it aired out I tested the EASTWOOD epoxy primer on a spare hood. It ended up that 1:1:.5 was the right ratio for my HVLP concourse gun. (NOTE: when reducing, add the reducer to the epoxy part A, mix, THEN add the activator and mix again) I used a 1.4 tip with needle all the way out and 25psi at the gun and sprayed a wide pattern, overlapped strokes by 1/2.

    It laid down really well, as flat as I was going to get it I think. I applied two coats.

    The only issue I ran into was this:

    I sprayed one gun's worth of the epoxy and then had to mix another batch. I added the new batch to the gun and when I started spraying again the gun blew a couple spatters of epoxy. almost "snotlike". Then it would clear up and spray the rest of the batch.

    This repeated again on the second coat. So I will need to sand the spatters down, though it shouldn't take too long. the rest of the epoxy laid really flat.

    1) why the spatter? if the epoxy wasn't mixed enough it would have done that all thru the job, not just at a batch change. perhaps the heat today cured the epoxy in the gun? I was in the shade of the garage. I just don't get it. And I was pissed when it happened as it ruined my smooth finish.
    2) what grit sandpaper should I sand the "snots" off with? The epoxy instructions say it can be wet sanded the day after application.

    by the way....WOW do the panels look good! the effort applied to the surfacer really seems to have had an effect. hopefully it looks as good under color and clear.
    20170809_190702.jpg 20170809_190710.jpg
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  4. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    Was kicking off , any time you are working with primer or epoxy, always shoot the first pull away from the car, and look atbthe air cap, if its closing up with debris clean it out . but you needed a slower reducer or activator sounds like from what you are describing

    500 wet will level it just fine
    Smartin likes this.
  5. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    Good news! I found a PPG distributor near me. It was 45 minutes away but in the right neck of the woods.

    I gave them the Seamist green paint code and he said No Problem! The color looks great! I am excited to see It on the car.

    Their shopline was the price point I wanted at about $450 for gallon base, clear, reducer and activator.

    I just went out and used a razor to cut down various "snots" and bugs in the epoxy. I am going to wetsand 600 on these locations and visible bugtracks.

    There is one spot where I stumbled my shorts into the epoxy that I have to smooth out. I might spray that spot one more coat of epoxy.

    But things are lining up. Patience is difficult at this point.
  6. 2001ws6

    2001ws6 last of the v8 interceptors


    Is it in Southington?
  7. DasRottweiler

    DasRottweiler -BuickAddict-

    I am following this thread closely, as I am painting my car too. I bought a ShelterLogic portable garage to do the base coat and clear, but am doing epoxy, bodywork, and priming in my 2 stall garage. Curious where you are painting and what precautions, prep are you doing to better your painting environment? Jim
  8. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    Leonards in Stafford
  9. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    in my crappy two bay garage with the doors and windows open. I did wash it out really well about a week prior to starting all this. Ive been using a shopvac to stay on top of the dust buildup.

    The best thing I did was to have bought three disposable respirators
  10. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    The 600 grit wetsand had the desired effect and smoothed out all the little snots and bug tracks in the sealer. On to color!
  11. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    I've got three coats of base color on and it looks great.

    I went with light coats not overlapping, not trying to get the color in 1 shot.

    I think I can still see some gray up close.

    More coats? Medium wet? Light? Overlap?

    I've got no striping as yet.
  12. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    Had a buddy (former autobody guy) come over and take a look, he recommended another couple coats.

    I went two more coats (total 5), a little slower this time to lay more material, and I overlapped strokes about 1/4. (I ended up using about 2/3 gallon, but I have a vinyl top I am not spraying)

    It looks......excellent. even up close. Very pleased with myself for achieving a uniform metallic color with no sags or stripes. Of course its not in the sun yet....

    20170811_140613.jpg 20170811_140634.jpg 20170811_140620.jpg

    Just cleaned up the paint gun and the mess. Now its time for lunch and then on to CLEAR!

    PS Ive been doing an outside only-job this entire time not doing the backside of the doors etc. I notice that I will have to go back and at least do the trunk lid jamb with my detail gun. the color didn't get in between the panels as well as I thought it would.)
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  13. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    I got the clearcoat done!

    I mixed 2:1 with activator according to directions, not reduced.
    Asking for 1.3-1.5 tip I used 1.4
    I ran about 25 psi first coat and 30 psi second coat.

    The first coat of clear had more orange peel than I wanted to see after all that sanding to get things flat. It just didn't lay down too well, especially on the more vertical surfaces.

    I thought maybe I should have reduced it a bit....rechecked the spec sheet and no it said just 2:1.
    So on the second coat I slowed down a little and moved the gun a bit closer to the car..maybe 6"? Bumped the pressure up to 30psi. I could almost hear the clear hitting the panel or "feel" when it was hitting right. It laid a wetter coat this time and it definitely smoothed out better.

    Those two coats burned through almost a gallon of clear so I guess it was going on pretty heavy. No sags or runs though. WOW did that clearcoat get all over everything! Much worse than the other stuff I was spraying, and soooo sticky.

    I will have to get a look at it in the sunlight. I think the orange peel is OEM-like in the best spots. This is a driver so I am not too worried about it. Time will tell if I feel like wetsanding and buffing. Right now it sounds like a lot of work. And once its all back together with the trim etc it might not be too noticeable.

    So glad to be done. What a grind. Had a few drinks tonight to celebrate.

    I will post pics of the bodywork thru the paint this week.

    Thanks everyone, especially Hugger for the pointers tips and tricks.
  14. scubasteve455

    scubasteve455 Well-Known Member

    Good job! Heck of a feeling!
    techg8 likes this.
  15. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    Its like building an engine. how far down the rabbithole do you want to go?
    There are a lot of very minor things that are driving me nuts. But theyre too small and inconsequential to spend time on them. I can see where show restorations take forever. this is just a driver.
    Shoulda woulda couldas always pop up once youre done too. 20-20 hindsight.

    but that's balanced by the awesomeness of seeing the new color. Brings the car back to life!
    And the relief of completing the job.

    I learned a lot this time around.
  16. hugger

    hugger Well-Known Member

    I always cut my clear, otherwise most of them spray like crap, doesn't have to or need to be a full part just a splash to loosen it up. But if you do another one it will be exponentially better, that's the good thing about body and paint the learning curve is long but once you make a mistake it's easy to not do it again
    techg8 likes this.
  17. scubasteve455

    scubasteve455 Well-Known Member

    We never stop learning. Just wait til tomorrow.
    techg8 likes this.
  18. DasRottweiler

    DasRottweiler -BuickAddict-

  19. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    Here is the epoxy sealer
    20170809_190702.jpg 20170809_190710.jpg 20170809_190716.jpg
  20. techg8

    techg8 The BS GS

    here is base... oo how flat it is!

    20170811_122217.jpg 20170811_140613.jpg 20170811_140634.jpg 20170811_140620.jpg

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