Hi Jim The condensation spoke of is after you start up and exhaust pipes and engine is warm,when you shut it off the cooling mufflers and pipes/motor suck water from the air into the system....this is why when you store a car for winter you plug up carb and exhaust after the last start up right away as not to let water/condensation in. Some even pour a can of rislone down the carb till the motor dies to coat the insides of engine while she sleeps for winter(Randy is rambling...must be the overtime i am doing at work).,,back to subject. >>> Jim said.... "but I really havent had the engine running for more that 5 minutes or so at a time, so I cant really tell. Its getting a little cold here so that could be part of it as well." >> I was told many moons ago that after the first start up and break in of cam and and other tweaks to make her run decent the next thing to do would be to take her for a drive. The acceleration and deacceleration is like a push me pull me thing. This will break in rings on pistons and seal things up better. Do this drive on a early morning like a Sunday with no traffic,,,on the gas a while,,,then off the gas,,,,on the gas,,off the gas,,up a hill...down a hill,,ect. Starts and stops in the driveway might not be what she needs being a virgin. As the previuos list member said,,maybe drive her to a dyno shop that can read the fumes comin outs her pipes and tell you if she rich or lean,,,but again take her for a longer drive before going there even. This is if she is able to drive half decent? Dont go too far in case of problems,,stay in your area. Seeing how i can hardley type or think i better just go to bed so i can go back to another 12 hrs of slavery the min i wake. Good luck Jim...drive safe! Randy H. Maple Ditch B.C. 72 Cutlass(Buick430)12.68@108mph street tires, cast iron intake. 58 Olds 88 371 J2 15.67@87mph 4400pds 72 Cutlass Convert.
thanks for the good advice... Hey guys.... Yeah the more I think about all of this, I think you are all right. I was a little jumpy about all of this. However there is a small problem. I cant take the car for a drive cause it wont stop. I am pulling 7in of vaccum on the gauge. I have been told that thats not enough to power the brakes. I am going to get some carb cleaner and spray it around the base of the carb to se if i have a leak there. After that I have a freind of mine that said he'd bring his timing light over and check it all out for me. What are the possible causes for low vac. pressure....? Thanks, Rob :3gears:
The low vacuum at idle may be normal. With 240 net duration I think 7 inches is as good as its gonna get. Try my method of stopping...two feet on the brake pedal and push as hard as you can until you butt comes off the seat :laugh: . My 455 pulls a whopping 4-5 inches of vacuum at an idle with a T/A 308S
reply... Jason, I dont know about your car, but mine takes about 15 feet to stop from a roll.... I dont think that will work for me...Maybe a drag chute would though... :Brow: I spoke to Mike at TA again today ( one hell of a nice guy) and he explained that my initial timing needs to be around 20-22 and total around 32-34. My initial timing is probably around 10 or 14 if I remember correctly ( I think thats what the shop told me) But also If I understood mike correctly the distributor I have ( mallory Unilite) will need to be re-curved to have an initial timing of 20-22 because on most engines an initial timing of 10 is ok, but because of the cam I have (TA 290-08H) it needs to advance, and its current setup will not allow it to. I need to pick up some supplies and im going to attempt to do this. Also I spoke with a rep from the company that made my wiring harness. I think part of the problem with the electric choke was that I had the hot wire for it connected to the pink wire that would usually go to the coil. They told me that although it is a 12volt source the wire is too thin, and should not be used. They recomended running a wire from the IGN port on the fuse box to a switch on the dash, and then to the choke. Also the other day I had to replace my header gaskets, and I pulled the valve cover. Two of my roller rockers have loosened up a bit. I can only imagine that all the compression and fuel are going right out the exhaust valve. I have to get that fixed as well.... Please keep all the helpful advice coming....its really helping!!!! Thanks, Rob
a few thoughts... I spoke with my buddy that assembled my engine, and asked him if he degreed the camshaft. He said he did not, and that he never does, he just lines up the gear with the mark on the cam. This is a little out of my realm of knowledge, but it has been suggested to me that this could be part of my problem. Its also been suggested to me that camshafts should always be degreed. Also the initial timing on the engine is around 10, and should be 20-24. And I am not an expert, but I can just tell that the engine is out of time. Would this be from the distributor needing to be advanced or the cam not being degreed or both? I probably could stumble through advancing the distributor, but defreeing a cam is out of my reach, so I think I will take it to a shop, and while Im there have them advance the timing. Please let me know your thoughts on this cam issue and if there is anything else that should be checked before putting the car on the street. Thanks, Rob :3gears:
Hey Rob. An aftermarket cam going into an engine for the first time should always be degreed. Basically, the procedure checks to be sure that the ACTUAL cam timing is spot on. In other words, that the intake and exhaust valves are opening exactly when they should versus the position of the crankshaft. There would have been a card included with your new cam giving the timing of these events. While it is a fairly simple procedure, it will require the front cover to come off of your engine. If you understand the relationship of how things inside your engine work together and you have good instructions you probably could do this yourself. There are several threads on this board detailing how to do it. Of course, if you feel more comfortable having someone else do it for you by all means go that route. The reason this needs to be done, at least as I understand it, is not necessesarily due to shoddy craftsmanship on the manufacutures part. It is more a function of production tolerances working together (or against each other depending on how you look at it). Consider that if each part has a 1% tolerance level you have the following possibility: Crank key way being off, crank gear mark being off, crank gear slot for the keyway being off, cam gear mark being off, hole for the pin in the cam into the cam gear being off, hole in the cam itself for the pin being off and the lobes on the cam being off. Now, 1% isn't much by itself for any ONE of these items. Imagine though that all seven of these are off by being advanced 1% each. That is a total of 7% advanced, or with 360 degrees, a total of 25 degrees! That is a BUNCH for your cam to be off. Fortunately, most all manufacturers have tolerances much less than 1% and it is very unusual to find that an installed cam is more than 2-3 degrees off of being exactly right. The issue is that if you want your cam installed 'straight up' (not advanced or retarded at all) and you use the marks on the cam and crank gears, it will be off by 2-3 degrees in reality. Not much but enough to make a difference in how your engine behaves. Others on this board will be much more knowledgeable about the exact effects advancing or retarding a cam will have on performance, vacuum and the movement up and down the RPM range of horsepower and torque peaks that advancing or retarding will have but I can tell you it matters. Sometimes more than others. Did you ever get the rich condition under control?
reply I do think the rich problem is taken care of. Im not experiencing any fouled plugs or the oil smelling like gas or anything like that. The problem seemes timing related. Im not sure if its the distributor needing to be advanced, or the cam needing to be degreed, but its almost like you can hear the engine is out of time. Tou know how a perfectly tuned engine has almost a harmony to it, even if it has a big cam in it. This engine doesnt sound right. The guys at the shop thought that maybe my spark plug wires were cris crossed, having the wrong cylinders firing a the wrong times. I have meticulously checked this. 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 is the order Im using and it goes clockwise I think, I cant remember at the moment. My buddy said that when he assembled the engine that he lined up the marks on the cam with the mark on the cam gear, and so on, and he said that he never degrees cams, but he is a chevy guy, and I have been told many times that chevy engines are much less tempermental that buick engines. After reading all I have about this, I definatly can see the reason why degreeing a cam is important. As far as how its done Im lost. I have seen photos where they pull the water pump housing thing off and place this wheel on the end of the cam. I can only guess that there is information on the wheel that tells you where to place the cam, but I wouldnt know how to do it. o No: :Smarty: If any of you guys on here know how to do this stuff, and are local to north new jersey, Id be interested in paying you to teach me how to do it, instead of paying to rent a trailer and paying a shop to do it for me. Send me an IM if you are interested... :TU: Rob
Rob, If you are in north Jersey, I would take the car over to Stage1 Performance. The owner is Rob Chilenski, a through and through Buick Guy. He owns a 9 second race car, and 11 second street car. He can do whatever needs to be done. His adress is 422 Rt 23 North, Pompton Plains, N.J. Give him a call at 973-839-4900 Rob has done lots of work on my GS, I highly recommend him.
reply Larry, Yeah, I agree stage 1 is a great shop. They were the only ones that could solve my tranny problems, and they did the initial start up on my car. The problem is that I dont have a trailer or a truck to pull it with. Last time I rented a trailer, and had my grandfather pull it with his yukon. Its also an hour away from me. Its just an incredable hassle. If I cant find somone to come to me, that is where I will go, I wouldnt trust my car to anyone else. :beer
reply Ok...2 things... 1) I think I may go to Stage 1 and have them do my car afterall. I just dont have the knowledge to be able to do some of the things I need to have done, and I'd rather pay to have it done right the first time, then try and do it myself and screw it up and then pay someone twice as much to fix my mistake. The main thing I like about those guys is they will let you watch what they are doing and dont seem to mind questions, unnlike some other shops that I wont mention that ask you to wait in their waiting room while they do, who knows what to your car. I am going to have them re-curve the distributor and degree the cam ( although when I spoke to Rob he didnt think it may be nescessary since it was running pretty good when they started it). Is there anything else I should have them check while its there? Im not going to rent this damn trailer again, so I am going to have them do everything that needs to be done in one shot. Any other suggestions? 2) Today I fired up the car, (after taking Larry's advice about giving the champions a second chance) and it ran well. The electric choke is run through a switch on my dash, and using it makes the engine run poorly, so I really just wasted a switch. I re-gapped the champion plugs that originally fouled out to .045 and cleaned them thoroughly with a wire brush. I do think that Larry is right, they definatly seem to have a little more throttle response to them. I also think that for my setup .045 is the way to go. A strange thing happened while the car was running..... o No: I figured that since the car was running so well, Id pull it into the driveway and let it run for more than two minutes for once to test a few things. The smoke coming from the tailpipes does seem to stop once the engine gets warm. Once warm the engine sounded good. As I was revving the engine a bit I noticed smoke coming out of the vents in the dash. My immediate response was that I wired something wrong. I grabbed a fire extinguisher, and looked under the dash. Nothing. Everything was fine. The smoke had almost no odor at all to it. It was very faint, you almost couldnt see it. I cheched below the dash and saw it was coming from the door on the heater core. I pushed it open, and sure enough thats where it was coming from. I looked under the car. No exhaust leaks. I looked under the hood. No smoke. I lokked under the car under the engine. Nothing. It was like something was burning, but it does not seem electrical. What could be going on in the heater core? I remember when I installed it, it was just like a small radiator in there, metal and fiberglass, nothing to burn. When wire casings burn they have a funny odor to them, this did not have that. I just let the car idle, to see if it was from me revving it. It didnt stop. It had some heat to it, cause it was steaming up the windshield. I then turned the car off and it stopped.......Any ideas on this one? o No: ou: Rob
Hey Rob, I would have to agree with Larry on the heater core. Maybe it's just baking off some antifreeze or water on the heater core. If its putting a mist onto your windshield it's a good sign it's antifreeze but usually you can smell that a mile away. One other thing. I don't see anywhere here you saying you have a double roller timing chain. If not, then all Stage 1 performance can do is check your cam timing. Without an adjustable timing chain set they won't be able to advance or retard your cam. They might be able to sell you one if needed, but I just didn't want you to pay for them to pull the whole front cover off to find out they can't really adjust it anyway. Of course Rob Chilenski sure knows his stuff and he probably wouldn't even bother degreeing your cam if he has a better idea of whats up with your timing. Just something to think about. Good luck.
reply Thats a good point....I should have mentioned that. Yes I do have a double roller chain. I cant remember the make, I actually built the engine two years ago ( before I was married). As for the smoke, I think you guys are right now that I think about it. Last week I noticed the return hose was loose, so I tightened it, and some antifreeze may have gotten in there, and could be just burning off. I dont really remember a smell, but it would make sense. I have blown a few head gaskets and that smell is kinda unmistakeable. If the heatercore is leaking the only real problem would be losing coolant right? Is there anything else to be concerned about? I am just curious about something else. When I was talking with Mike at TA he mentioned that the mallory uni-lite cannot allow itself to advance, and it must be re-curved. He also said that an initial timing of 10 would normally be fine, but not with the 290-08H cam that I have. He said that I should have an initial timing of 20-24. He also said that once I do so, it will be like night and day. I am just wondering, but why does advancing the distributor make the engine run better? Is it because it is not opperating at maximum efficiency ( maybe an intake and exhaust valve open at the same time, or maybe a spark plug firing at the wrong time)? Please keep all the advice coming..... Thanks, Rob :beer
reply Ok...took my car to Stage 1 today.... Many of you were suggesting that the idle mixture needed to be adjusted and you were right they did. Also they advanced the distributor to have an initial timing of 25 with 36 all in. I am now pulling 14 on the vaccum gauge instead of 6, just from advancing the distributor. Mike at TA was right, the car is like night and day. It is easier to start now, and runs strong at idle as well as higher rpm's. I spoke to another friend who told me that my cam may have gone flat, so Stage 1 checked for that as well. I am running a pretty steady 180 degrees, and around 125 on the compression tester on all the cylinders we checked (3 or 4). They also checked and found no vaccum leaks. I have two rockers that seem to keep loosening up though. Its the same few. They said to keep an eye on them. I still have very little brakes, because my booster seems bad. I guess I deserve that, since every part of my braking system is new except the booster. Im gonna get one of those tomorrow and install it. I'll keep the updates coming. Thanks, Rob
anyone know a good place to get a brake booster? I need a new brake booster...my local shop wants $150 + core charge.....anyone know where I can get on cheaper? Also I need a new heater core..... Thanks, ROb :beer
Rob, The heater core you can get at any parts store, they may need to order it. For a booster, I don't think your going to find them cheaper than that. I bought a nice booster through this BB. Mark Reeves put together a group purchase last spring I believe. They were brand new GM licenced repros. Proper plating and all, a really nice piece. Contact Mark, he's Stage-x I believe. shoot him a PM.
Rob, Heater cores can also be found and had at local radiator shops :TU: I got one a year ago about $50 bucks. Bring the old one for comparisons. Just to be sure :Smarty:
Rob, Here's Mark's original thread when he announced the group purchase. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=36061&highlight=Group+purchase I posted on page 3, and included a picture after I unpacked it.
reply Ok... Got all my autometer gauges hooked up.. Water temp....Running a steady 180 or less Oil Pressure....at idle is around 30, but once cruising or giving it a little gas a steady 60 Volts...12-14 Vaccum...14 at idle...but gets up there once I touch the gas... Also I have tried starting it up in some cold NJ weather, and its fine. Runs like a champ. I took it for a ride the other day and ran great. I have a few other non-engine and trans bugs to work out, but it seems as though my problems are solved. Thanks to all of you for all of your help. :beer If it were not for you guys Id still be scratching my head in frustration. ou: Rob :3gears: :Brow:
