Cooked is more like it. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=234764 I wouldn't assume that TA did anything wrong here...
Please show a picture of the Machine shop check list. If they did not provide one, then they don't need to be in business. For $700.00 I could done everything that the guy a few post ago listed, and yes first thing in a machine shop on all engine parts is magnafluxing or using metal colored metal dust on parts and magnetizing, just visually looking. I agree with everyone on here check and retorque head gaskets..
Install a burp valve on upper hose like the Chubby boys do, Install a fail safe Thermostat (one with a hole on the side of it), and retorque your stuff and check it again. I highly doubt T/A screwed you stuff up. Mike needs to chime in and explain to this poor fella what to do. The mentioned above is what I do and many Pro's do.
Im not assuming there was anything intentionally done wrong, and at this point it doesn't matter to me as long as the issue is taken care of. The reason i let them put the motor together was to avoid there being any confusion as to who did what. All I did was put the motor back in the car and we have a head with water in the cylinder. I am going there in the morning to see how they want to handle this situation, and what I would live to hear is bring us the car and well call you when the car is ready. That is why I did not post what shop it was because I wanted to give them an opportunity to get this right without it becoming an issue. I know sometimes crap happens, that I can live with but when it does somebody has to clean it up. TA has been great to deal with, and I expect nothing less on this issue, so well see in the morning.
Ok here is what we have so far. On Friday I went down to TA with my mechanic and this is what I went away with. I was given 7 bars leak Tablets to put in the radiator, was told to take the valve cover off and clean out any milky substance, run the car through a few heat cycles, retorque the heads, and see if it stopped smoking out of the drivers side pipe. Mike at TA questioned the sleeves in the motor, he believes that the water may becoming from one of the sleeves??? So I went home and did all of the things he suggested, the head bolts were all torqued to spec, I pulled the valve cover and there was no water that I could distinguish form the oil, and some milk on the very last rocker. There was a little milk on the valve cover as well, so I cleaned everything up, and sealed it all back up. I drove the car for about 30 miles stopped got gas, and went over to my mechanics house and let the car run, and no smoke. I have asked several people about this situation and every one of them has said that there is no way that I was getting water in the cylinder due to a sleeve not sealing right on the top, and that if that was the case i would have been getting compression in the water instead of condensation blowing out the tail pipe. I was also told that there is no way that the head could be cracked, and all of a sudden stop leaking after adding bars leak. So on to my next dilemma. Mike stated that if the bars leak did not stop the leak that I could take the motor out and bring it back to him and that they would take care of it. Im sure I don't have to tell any of you who have pulled these motors with headers out of these cars what a chore it is, and if I have to pay my mechanic to do it he said its going to cost me at least $250. Now I have never believed in a magic pill so I have a hard time believing the issue is resolved. Most people I have asked say that the head gasket is the culprit, and that at some point the issue is going to come back. I really appreciate Mike letting me know that he would take care of the problem if the smoking does not go away, but now that it has what should I do?? And sorry for such a long post, I have so many things going through my head right now.
Just a comment from me - that "magic pill" has worked for me beautifully in what we'd call "high performance" applications, including a head gasket issue I had in '02 with my iron heads, and a leaky freeze plug I have (had) now. I can say "had" since it's no longer a problem. Of course in a perfect world, that stuff should be unnecessary. Devon
Great if it works and the motor lives from here to eternity, but I would rather not have to rely on something like this on a brand new motor. I am happy with the way the car performs, but when you spend $6000 it just doesn't feel right to have to put bars leak in a motor that is brand new. The motor may never have another issue, but my problem is if it does then what?
Can any one tell if they had to put a "Magic Pill" in any engine from any other machine shop? I know the Machine shops in Michigan don't do this crap. I'm sorry that was a bad call T/A did. I never in my 20+ years of doing auto machining have I ever had to drop some "Magic Pills" " Bars Leak" in any my engines and alot have been sleeved. I call B.S. on this and be fore warned it WILL DO IT AGAIN SOON.
But..you also re-torqued the heads so the "magic" may not be as mystical as it appears. Glad your problem seems to be solved no matter what worked.
Hey babyblue 69, I have to agree with you, I wouldn't feel like that's a positive fix and its just a band aid. In spending 6k+ for an engine It should be perfect ! or dam well close!! things do happen. I'm glad it stopped leaking but keep a close eye on it, Is there a warranty of some sort ?
Devon just out of curiosity what was the issue you had. I have had a lot of people say a bunch of different things regarding the smoking out of the driver side tail pipe. Initially after speaking with TA they thought it may be a cracked head or one of the sleeves may be leaking on top, or a head gasket. After putting the bars leak in several shops including my mechanic have stated that there is no way that a cracked head would stop leaking by just adding bars leak, and that if the sleeve was leaking on the top that I would have been getting compression in the water, leaving them all to say that it has to be a head gasket issue. Any thoughts on this? Im going to drain the oil today to see if there is any water in the pan, but the dip stick has been clean leading every person I have asked to believe there is no water in the pan.
I was not in an area yesterday where my phone was working, so I did not get to speak with TA about it, Today we will get that issue addressed. I am perfectly ok with running the car the way it is right now if TA is willing to stand by the build. The problem I am having in thinking about this is what would be fair for everyone in a situation like this. Do I ask them to put it in writing that if I have a problem with this motor in the next 2,5,10 years they will take care of it?? I don't know what would be fair in this situation. I also know that its not fair to me to know that I spent $6,000 on a motor and it has issues from day one. Secondly is whatever we agree too with respect to warranty do I have them put it in writing, or do I just take there word for it. I have never had an issue dealing with TA before, and I don't want this to turn into something where we can no longer work with each other. At the same time I don't want to be stuck holding the bag either. Im open to any ideas you guys have and like I said so far TA has been great.
First time was a leaking head gasket at a coolant passage, leaking to the outside and not to a cylinder. Current situation is a dripping freeze plug near the right motor mount that would have required raising the engine to repair, so I tried stop leak first and voila, no more dripping. System has been drained and flushed once since then and still no issues. If it behaves I'm not going to worry about it until I'm rich & famous and decide to do another short block. Like you said, sealing a coolant leak to atmosphere this way is one thing, but I'd think sealing combustion pressures would be much more difficult. Devon
Unless T/A used non flanged Sleeves, there is no way water can get in the oil. The bottom of the sleeve now can leak if there was any variation's. Flanged sleeve's have wide collar on top and the gasket ring seal's rt on top of that. Bar's leak is a temporary fix no matter what anyone says. Personally, I would want a warranty in writing.
Now had you spent $6000 on this exact same problem and bars leak was the suggestion by your builder would you have the same attitude?? Or would you expect the builder to fix the problem. Like you said I could run this motor for ever and never experience any other problem, or next year it could be smoking again. I talked with Mike from TA today and I feel like he is leaning towards the sleeve being the issue when everyone else I have talked to say absolutely not. To me it makes no difference as I feel it was on the shop to check the integrity of the sleeves if that turns out to be the issue before building on that block. I did my part in notifying them when the motor was dropped off that the block had been sleeved, but when it was dropped off it did not have a problem with a leaking sleeve. So at that point since I am not a pro I was looking for them to give the green light and they did so off we went on the build. If it turns out to be a sleeve am I on the hook for that?? Or should I expect this to be handled? By the way the general consensus has been that it has a head gasket problem, not a cracked head or a leaky sleeve.
For any later model Caddy engines (4.1-4.9 or 4.6 Northstar), the supplemental coolant pellets are a normal maintenance item. I always crush them up, mix with a little coolant and pour into the lower radiator hose - so it goes straight into the engine first. You're not going to fix a bad gasket with them, but they are effective for minor leakage.
