What would you consider a minor leak? I was putting a half gallon of water in the radiator after every other time out. I have not checked it since I drove it last, so I'll have a better idea of where its at since it stopped smoking in the morning.
if i built the motor. and the sleeve happened to be the problem the fair deal to me would be that you provide another block and pay for machining and i would assemble it on my time. sleeves can be good or they can haunt you. i dono if it would be possible to test a sleeve and be 100 percent certain. from my experience 100 percent sure is never reachable. i would suspect the retorque sealed the problem.
In all honesty, I can't give you an opinion when it comes to this kind of engine work, or this kind of problem when it comes to a supplier of an engine already built. Since I first had to rebuild my 430 in 1986 I've had the machine work done on the outside, and since then I've done all assembly myself on all the engines I've put together. Devon
If this was my engine, I would pull the head off the side that was leaking, inspect it, and replace the gasket. I think that would be fair, and I would feel better about it that way.
I have been following this thread and have not wanted to say anything, but I think I must. The shop that rebuilt your engine and charged you good money for it should not have handed you 6 tablets of stop leak and call me in the morning, and any head retorquing should have been done after the dyno testing and be included in the price. I mean, whats it gonna cost them, some labor time and maybe a fix? In an attorneys eyes, you could take that engine to another shop, have them do a teardown to find the problem, have them fix it, pay the bill and sue the original builder for all costs associated. And win. A newly rebuilt engine should not have coolant flow/overheating issues, plain and simple. I'm not taking sides here, just stating the facts of being in business, which means making a profit on ALL sales AND taking a loss when a mistake/unfortunate coincidence happens. Look at it this way, if you had just gone to a local tire store and had 4 new michelins put on, paid the bill and picked up your car to find it with a flat tire, would you accept a can of stop leak?
This is really turning into a mess! Now, please don't take this the wrong way, but I read the other threads you've started recently. It's quite obvious that you are a little "green" when it comes to engine work, judging by the questions you've asked over the last year or 2. And you are frustrated. We all have to start somewhere, and making mistakes is part of going to the school of hard knocks. That said, I really think you got this engine too hot when you installed it and got it running. If TA had this running on a test-stand, then chances are good it left their possession in perfect order. There are some machine shops that won't let DIYers install their products because the likelihood of something going wrong during break-in is too big of a risk. I bet that's why TA got the cam broke in properly for you. Air pockets are a real problem on many engines, especially ones that have no coolant in them to start with. If you are not careful on start-up, and don't have the knowledge and experience to see what is happening, then bad things WILL happen! I make mistakes everyday, and I've been wrenching for almost 3 decades! Anyway, what type of head gaskets did TA use? Is your local mechanic capable of doing a leak test? That is, remove the rocker asm's, and put shop air into each cylinder and look for bubbles in the radiator. If he can do that, do that first before removing the head(s). If there are no bubbles, clean the valve covers, change the oil and filter and drive the car, carefully noting anything unusual. If there are bubbles, and you've re-torqued the heads properly, note the cylinder(s) and remove the head(s), and CAREFULLY inspect the heads, cylinder and gasket. Don't give up! I doubt that you hurt the engine, but things need to be checked and set right. Please please please don't point fingers out of frustration! Yes, a $6k rebuild should be perfect! But you assumed the liability of a proper install/commissioning of this engine, and I'm not so sure that you don't have the two confused...
I dont know if I could have said it better myself, and I am hoping that TA is willing to do what it takes to make this situation a none issue. i appreciate what they do for our community, but at the end of the day I am my own community, and I need for this to be right. I am taking the car to Ta on Friday to let Mike see it and if he is willing to put it on paper that if and when I have an issue with this motor that it will be taken care of then I will drive it until the issue comes back, if not then I will be taking the motor back out of the car and taking it back to them. I have the ability to take the motor out myself, I just don't know if I have time to do it, if it needs to be done. My mechanic says he will take it out and put it back in for me for $350, so that is something else I will have to pay for if I cant find the time to get to done, if need be along with the other cost associated with putting a motor back in. This entire deal has been bad, and I know sometimes stuff like this happens, and we deal with it. So I am going to stay optimistic and put my trust in TA and expect for them to do what is right while covering myself. Did I say that the car runs like a champ right now, way better then it has at any point of me having the car, and that alone makes this issue a little less upsetting. I know they got something right for this car to run this hard.
You are absolutely right I am a little green as this was the first time that I have ever removed heads, or a motor before, But what I don know is that this time last year I took the heads off had them done and put them back on myself, and never had a problem loosing water, or smoking out of the tail pipe the way this motor was. Being as Green as I am is the reason I paid TA to assemble the motor, Its the reason I paid TA to break the motor in, its the reason I asked them to ensure they retorqued the heads before I picked it up which they say they did 3 times. In addition to building the engine and breaking the engine in TA also installed tabs on the heads to ensure the motor was not over heated, as they explained that would void the warranty, and that if the first thing I checked and the tabs are still there. In addition to that the motor was never over heated unless my $100 Phantom II gauge was not working. I am a little green which is why I post in this form to get information, and to check and see if what I am thinking is half way right, and so far I don't believe I am too far off. Like I have said I have a great relationship with Ta and have been buying parts from them for 5 years, so I would never suggest they did something intentionally or maliciously because I don't believe them to be that type of shop, but in a situation like this there is no one else to point a finger at. If there was a mistake that could be made by simply putting the motor back in the car, bolting the headers up putting the carb, and the rest of the accessories on then it is possible that I could have gotten that wrong, but someone would have to tell me what I could have done to get water blowing out of the tail pipe.
This is what should be done. The Machine shops all across America will say the same thing. LSM Systems Engineering, Reher-Morrison, Sterling Performance, and every single Nascar and NHRA engine builders stand behind there work, They check every single thing before dyno run and after. If there is a problem it is fixed rt then and there. The Machine I worked for had one 350 chevy that was bored out and sleeved and it leaked, we take it back and got another block and started all over on our dime not theirs. No body in the rt mind would say " no , on warranty " If they did. I would advise you and everyone to stay away from them. That is just not rt, no matter who you are.
Valve job; disassemble, boil, 4 angle intake, 3 angle radius ext. Set spring heights, test springs for seat and open pressure, blast, magna flux, back-cut intake valves $295.00 Pressure test heads, $68.00pr. We pressure test AFTER seats are installed. Resurface heads, $75.00pr. Install valve guides, .500" bronze, hone to size, $175.00 Cut guides for P/C seal, $32.00 Install alloy ext seats & cut. $100.00 includes alloy seat inserts. plus any casting and/or thread repair as required. parts -------------- Bronze valve guide, set of 16. $55.00 Blue flourolastomer valve seals. $22.00 Shims, plugs, shop supplies. $15.00 That is what we charge. Sometimes less if the stuff comes in real clean.
Have you talked to TA about this yet? I'm wondering what their response is? Also when you first started it up what temp readings were you getting? Since it was already broken in by TA you should have been able to just start it up,tune it and drive.
I actually called Mike on Tuesday when I got back in town to let him know what was going on and that the car was no longer smoking after the bars leak, I still got the impression from speaking with him on the phone that he believes the sleeved cylinders to be the culprit. I told him that I had been asking around about the sleeves, and the general consensus has been that if a sleeve is leaking on the top that I would be getting compression in the water, and he stated that that could definitely be the case, and that he wants to see the car. I thought I would have time to get it to him today, but I did not. Monday morning bright and early I will be down there because at this point all we need to get ironed out is what kinda of warranty I am going to get, and if it is something we both can live with then I will run it, because the car is a blast to drive. If we can not get on the same page about the warranty then i will pull the motor back out of the car and take it back to TA. I changed the oil today and there is no water, or metal in the pan, only a little of the break in lube from the cam that was on top of the drain plug so I am not concerned about any thing on the bottom. In my heart I believe the culprit is the head gasket. When the motor was first fire up and still to this day I have not seen temps over 220 and the 220 cam on a 110 degree day at a long light. The car for the most part is operating at about 185 to 195. I dropped it in and have not touched a thing. Ta locked the distributor down at 32 degrees, and I have not messed with a thing. So Ill take the car on Monday, and hopefully I leave happy, and they will be ok with what we agree to.
How can you expect anyone to help you when your story keeps changing? Again, refer to http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=234764 See posts 20-26. o No:
X 2 Bob I know what happened when my motor hit 240 when i forgot to turn the water pump on.New head gasket fixed my issue of exhaust in the coolant.I remember that thread before this thread and all along have been leaning toward head gasket.Im not sure where the bars leak fits in though as i have never used it. Jamie
Different issue thats why I started a new thread, I thought that was the idea behind having a different thread so as not to confuse anyone. Since the car has been running I have not had any issues with overheating, and if you go back and look through the post you highlighted the car was not running hot then, otherwise I don't know if I would have been able to grab and hold the radiator hose. And if it had gotten hot enough to blow a head gasket Im sure the tabs that were placed on the back of the heads by TA would have popped. So Ill try to be a little more precise next time for you.
I dont know where the bars leak fits in either, But what I do know is the car is no longer smoking out of the drivers side tail pipe, and I am not having to put a half gallon of antifreeze in the radiator after driving the car a couple of times. And as long as thats the case then I am good with the results. The only thing left to sort out is what the warranty on this will be because like I said I don't necessarily believe in the magic pill, but so far so good (knock on wood)
