fyi, it's for sale again. didn't meet reserve on ebay last I saw. yep, I've asked Dave about the sound deadening a few times and I have no reason to believe he's wrong. closing the trunk on a w-car and a non w-car sound the same to me. I've asked some other people also and they all say it was the same sound deadening as a regular F-85 or Cutlass. :shock: the fuel lines are different from a 400/455 and a W-31 350? do tell o No: I know the W-31 got the return line. Is it a difference in the size of the lines? 5/16 vs 3/8 or something like that.
Take a lesson from someone else on this board and don't take it as gospel that any numbers match just because the guy assures you they do! You are asking for trouble if you don't write down EVERY SINGLE NUMBER POSSIBLE and then check them yourself. Block stamping below #1 plug Carb Number Dist Number (yeah it's generic but at least make sure it's right) Sound deadening---mine has the tar stuff on the floor and the carpet had jute attached to the underside just like all the other cars...the "reduced sound deadening deal is a myth (at least in '70). Build sheet/broadcast cards? (don't remember what you said earlier). Special pistons from Texas!!!?? What kind of bogus sales pitch is that?? 2K is just a good starting point for a motor build. Try not to listen too hard to the sellers sales pitch---he sounds somewhat full of it. Texas specializes in a lot of things but making pistons is not one of them :Brow: Good luck and keep asking questions. Patton Edit:some detailed pics of the four speed hole in the trans tunnel would also help--pics from above and below. Also--is it a console car originally---if so how is the forward console mounting bracket held on? If it's a factory console car does he have what he purports to be the original console and shifter??? If so you have another source from which you can gather "clues" to possible originality. If you are serious about this then you need to find out these details and more! :TU: Suspension parts: boxed rear arms, rear control arm supports? Physically measure the diameter of the front sway bar....don't eye it and guess...take a cheap outside caliper and measure it. Air cleaner base(metal)---is it there? Engine pulleys? Are the fenders purportedly original? Are the W31 emblems already installed? Rear diff--3:31 was not an available gear to my knowledge. Is it an "O" type 12 bolt rear? There's a massive number of clues out there that will "help" or increase your odds but you are going to have to basically make the guy wish he never met you to get them all! Another edit: Realize that a body in primer is probably the worst way you could look at a car--If it's build primer then it's really flat (no sheen) which makes it nearly impossible to look down the sides and spot any areas where the body work is questionable (ie waves, etc that are easily spotted on a glossy surface) and warrants further investigation. If it's a shinier black epoxy primer then you are in better shape as far as spotting questionable areas. Said it before and I'll say it again--if this guy is using the pitch about "special parts" etc to sell you on this car then put your boots on (we do specialize in those in TX) and wade through his "BS" and find out YOURSELF what condition the car is in. People are selling garbage right now as they realize it's their "big chance" to score big in the collector car market----don't become this guys garbage man!
Excellent Post, Patton. I may have worded that a little poorly. What I meant to say is the fuel lines are the big block fuel lines (3/8 supply with fuel return) on a 350 car. I think the only other 350 cars to get a fuel return line were the A/C cars and they had 5/16 supply lines. There may have been a clip difference between the W31 and other 350 cars (due to the big block fuel lines), but we didn't pay any attention to that on line. We had large fixtures that pre positioned the clips on the lines before it went to the frame. It was called out by a 2 letter code that I would guess was the same as a big block car. At that point, you had no idea whether the car was going to be a 442 or a Cutlass unless you read the frame stamp (and knew how to decipher it). Engines weren't in yet. Sorry for the confusion.
Again, thanks for all the input. I know what goes into research when it comes time to purchase a rare car like this. So, I thought as an added bonus, I would ask some on the V8 board. There is much knowledge on here. Rest assured, there is no way we would purchase a car like this without getting more detailed information about it. It was just a quick visit to see the car and not enough time to go into depth about it. In a couple of days when I get the time, I will go back and be more detailed. The car is not in primer. Rather, it is in a very slick original gold color. The body panels are very straight. Rear quarters have been installed, and I would say the work is better than average on them. A lift is present at the shop so I can get it up high to look it over better next time. I didn't get the engine numbers, but had planned on it when I went back with my father. The 4 speed hump and hole are identical to a one owner 4 speed Cutlass we have. I inspected it for comparsion. I never inspected the console bracket, or shifter. Emblems are on the car, but are reproductions. Placement appear the same as my father's W-31 car. As far as shutting trunks and checking fuel lines and padding, I read that on the Olds club site last year. Since then dad bought a W-31 car which appears to have the same padding in it as a regular Cutlass. I didn't see a noticeable difference in the fuel line either. Also, the trunk sounded the same as shutting others. But, I mentioned those 3 things in case someone planned on posting that info. from the Olds site. I wanted to save them time from doing so. As for his sales pitch. Maybe I over blew it a little. He just told me that he couldn't pick the original pistons up from any ole place, but ended up finding them from a dist. in Texas where he went ahead and purchased a cam from also with similar specs to original. I don't think anyone assumed Texas builds special pistons. I haven't gone into the cost of the engine rebuild yet. All he said was that it was well over $2000. We did a budget rebuild on a 455 Olds engine last month with less than that in it. I know what expenses go into a quality rebuild. I will go into what exactly was done next time I talk to him and then I will know if he is full of it. Speaking to the rebuild shop and seeing reciepts are a must also. He did say the rearend and tranny were not originals, but I went ahead and checked the tranny just to see what vintage Muncie it was. He also told me that he is not sure if the car is the real thing or not. He is like all of us and knows it is very hard to determine that on several rare GM brands. I will look for build sheets when I go back. We have torn down 3 Cutlass cars this year and build sheets were in similar places in all 3. Seats and under package trays have been the hot spots so far. So, the seats from this car will have to be inspected. Thanks for the help.
John: Those build sheets you find under the seats and package tray are the Fisher body build sheets on Lansing built cars (all W machines were built in Lansing). They do not cover the unique options, etc. that are in the chassis and final assembly areas and are only partial build sheets. The final assembly build sheet verifies all that and was usually left in the car by accident. Best place we've located them is between the fuel tank and the underbody as a copy of it was taped to the top of the fuel tank in the subassembly area prior to delivery to the line. The Fisher sheets are helpful, but don't cover everything about the car. Sounds like you know what you're doing here. Don't be afraid to ask anything specific. Be careful of 442.com. It's mostly correct, but a lot of urban legends have been spread over there as for a long time it was "The Bible" for Oldsmobile information. Some of us with inside knowledge contacted them not so much to correct them oir show how smart we are, but to try to help tune the info to be more accurate. Unfortunately it fell upon deaf ears.
Sorry if I got a little overzealous before Poods.....I didn't realize your existing familiarity with Oldsmobiles (which sounds excellent!) and I hate to see anyone get burned pursuing one of these rarer machines. Well, keep the rest of us vicariously thrilled by posting more info, questions, etc as you get it. On one hand we all get worked up when someone finds something, hoping they will buy it and restore another cool, rare car and on the other hand we try to do everything possible to get them not to buy the car! Keep up the pursuit and thanks for letting us in on this particular "hunt". :TU: Patton
My father verified the engine matches the VIN yesterday. The VIN is one that could be a W31, but he is going to contact someone for more information. That someone would be the original owner if he is still living. The car is still titled to him, but he sold it in 1981 to another party who never titled the car. It just sit in their garage for over 15 years. There is no exterior build sheet. I have never been lucky enough to find one of those. I guess the elements get them much of the time. The man has agreed to let us search the interior pieces for sheets, but I really don't expect to be lucky. I know Sloan can help verify Stage cars. So, who do you get for an Olds? I had something last year that told me how to get a study done on a 442, but can't remember what it was. Again, thanks for all the help. I will keep you all posted if we find anymore info. This is really fun!
John---you are probably thinking of the Olds History Museum (or something like that)--never used them as it's my understanding that all they can do is decode the trim tag on the firewall...which anyone can do. Unfortunately, there is no service available for us like there is for Buicks and Pontiacs. Supposedly all records were lost in a warehouse fire. So--I guess someone wanted to make it real hard on us Olds fanatics--probably some dude that got fired from Pontiac or Buick and sent over to Olds (and didn't like it) :laugh: There was a guy over on ROP that recently bought a 70 W31 and let people in on it as he was looking----gave up some cool details (W27 rear, etc) that really got everyone's attention---it was good to hear that he bought the car. Don't get so fired up that you pay too much (whatever "too much" is)....it still sounds like an unfinished project car and should be discounted accordingly. As Dave mentioned before--13k sounds a bit too high for this thing. Patton
