I have a Japanese mini-truck that will need paint. These were not base/clear from the factory, but a single stage (enamel?) white paint. There are surface rust spots, panels needing body work and places in the bed where the paint has been worn off. So, I want to paint the exterior in the original color using the Nason enamel with a hardener. I am just not sure what primer to use over the current paint, over repairs and under the new topcoat. Last time we painted a car, we used DuPont sand and fill lacquer primer and thinner under a similar enamel paint. I am not sure this is even made or legal anymore. What is the most economic sandable primer to use in this case? This does not need to be perfect, but I want it to look nice. Thanks - Cheryl
There's 2 major catagories of primer, sealing and building. After you get the rust repaired, panels replaced and the current paint sanded as far as you intend to, seal the entire vehicle with epoxy primer. Use a high build 2K primer for your finish body work and building/blocking. After you're happy with your bodywork, apply another coat of epoxy as a seal coat. I have used Epoxy as a seal coat directly under my first coat of color. wet on wet. Catalyzed paints do not melt into each other like lacquer products do unless they are applied wet on wet. If allowed to fully cure they must be abraided (sanded) for adhesion to occur, it's strictly a mechanical bond.
Thanks for the reply. That was kind of what I was fearing. I mean the expense of different sealers, primers and topcoats that drives up the price of the entire job. I know this was simpler in the day! Isn’t there a buildable/sansable primer that will work over minimal bare metal, sanded old lacquer or enamel and under a single stage hardened enamel topcoat? That would reduce the amount of coats, products and time spent painting. Again this just has to be better then it is: not perfect by any means! Thanks - Cheryl
I like epoxy primers too. I pretty much use the process Phil posted. But I do understand your goal.... a simple lower cost system fits your needs for a basic old school paint job. If you're topcoating with Nason, you could just use their primers. https://products.axaltacs.com/dcat/us/en/nsn/catalog.html#prodTypeCd=prmr Their 2k Urethane DTM (Direct To Metal) should do all you need it to do. Most epoxies aren't designed for filling, and many aren't the easiest to sand. I used a Planet Color/Sherwin Williams product (now discontinued) that I liked. Epoxy based, decent filling properties and easy to sand. Wasn't recommended as a sealer, so it required sanding before topcoating....therefor it wasn't well suited for stuff like suspension parts, etc. SPI (Southern Poly Urethanes) has a nice sandable epoxy primer. It could be a choice for your high-end Buicks as well! I haven't used it, but have heard good things about it. https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/epoxy-primer I tried the Summit/Eastwood/Kirker epoxy and didn't care for it. Took too long to cure, tough to sand and it would sometime lift edges of underlying layers. My favorite is an epoxy JW recommended, from Viking Paints in MN. Great for using as Phil described.
There are many DTM 4 to 1 high build primers on the market...but for what your doin....and what it's on....that would be just fine I use a good bit of the Nason Ful Poxy...it sands great after 24hrs cure...and does fine as a sealer it's 1:1 so your not gonna be filling anything but that's not it's MO ..you can mix it 75/25 to cover 180scratches or smaller parts where you want more build..but it's much better at 1:1 SPI epoxy is a great product it's 1:1 also but needs 72hrs b4 it sands and powders....but it will fill surprisingly well...just be prepared for shrinking when doin so I spray on top of 220grit often especially on dealer work....and if your gonna buff it its fine on solid colors Upol has a newish DTM primer"green label" out it's priced around $175 a kit..powders nice...builds and sprays fine
But I would clean the surface rust up with 80 then 180...rest with 220 spot prime as needed with the DTM 4:1 Upol or similar...buzz those places down with 220.....then go straight to the Nason Fulthane....it will flow over 220 no problem...especially white...DONE
So, I would only need to prime the bare spots or bodywork with the DTM 4:1 and sand down the ok panels with 220. Then paint with Fulthane? No need to prime the entire vehicle? That could be a cheaper alternative!
BTW - I think the original topcoat from the factory is lacquer or an enamel. It is definitely not a base clear. Some sort of single stage that Mitsubishi would have used in 97?
It will be enamel....the 220 will hold it down just fine..I would however use bulldog around all edges..and those recessed areas
Ok thanks for the help. I’ll talk it over with my paint shop. Is this Bulldog sprayed by itself or added to the DTM 4:1?
You could acid etch any bare metal with metal conditioner or phosphoric acid (os pho) which is about $17 a gallon (Kleen strip?) at Lowes, a gallon will do many cars. You could go from etched metal to high build primer for finish sanding in those areas. Or local body shop supply sells "Smart" brand etching primer in spray cans that I use for small areas. You could probably do everything you need to do with one or two cans, it's about $15/can. You should do your final sanding with 400, if you use 220 you will see sanding scratches through your final paint. You can paint your new paint directly over your old paint if it is still bonded well basically using it as the primer for your new paint. Make sure it's all sanded well since the bond will be strictly mechanical.
Not with a DA and Nason Fulthane especially white....220 or 320 is fine..400 is too slick for a urethane over an old finish from my experience. And for what it's goin on....yea I would take the better bite for sure.....hot rod for cruise ins would get more attention Fulthane is like the old Delstar ....220 is no problem
I myself would get a qt kit of ful proxy Nason and lay a nice medium CT it's thin so move the gun....then let it set for 30min..tack...and 2 cts of color...maybe 3 if you need/want to. The epoxy makes life little easier..especially with spot pri.ed areas...andvit obviously promotes adhesion
DTM primer as Hugger suggests. Epoxy is nice, but EXPENSIVE! Just clean the rust as best you can, DTM prime, and if you don’t sand thru the DTM primer when sanding for paint, go straight to color, don’t bother sealing.
The local paint supply store has me sold on a catalyzed enamel as the best low cost alternative. They have some rattle can DTM primer. I just need to talk to them about what the paint needs for a sanding finish underneath. I am done patching rusted panels and am almost done repairing dents. So, it is almost time to pony up for paint supplies. I have been putting off spending that until there is no choice! Cheryl
The pictures from Japan made it look like surface rust. When I picked it up at the Port of Baltimore, one could poke a finger through it. The older style windshield seal allows you to remove the seal and windshield as one. The windshield is $700 and seal is $250 from Japan. I was on pins and needles removing it and replacing it. So glad it is back in without incident!
