My 72 GS will not start. It died while making a pass at the Midwest Buick Challenge. I was about 80' out and the engine backfired, threw a fireball out of the cowl scoop and died. As i turn the engine over it pops through the exhaust. It wont even try to start, just backfire. What could cause this? What should I check? The distributor is turning and appears ok. Thanks! Tom Jenkins
Need more info Tom. What kind of ignition do you have. Is it getting spark? Are you running a bronze dist gear? Have you checked for fuel? Have you checked the rotor position at top dead center #1?
The distributor might still turn even if the roll pin is broken...but it could be no longer aligned where it needs to be and slipping some. I'd verify the distributor is OK and timed properly. Do you have proper cranking compression in all the cylinders?
The distributor gear is chewed up really bad. It is not a bronze gear. I hope I didn't send metal through the engine. I only have 18 passes and about 100 street miles on this. I just built it and got it running the weekend before Salem. Thanks for the replies! Tom Jenkins
The cam gear looks fine. I am running a HV-HP oil pump. Is there a chance I didn't send metal through the engine and hurt bearings, crank, etc.??? Thanks for the quick replies Larry! Tom Jenkins
Ouch HV pump, now you know why it went. :error: Hard to tell if metal made it to the bearings, if you used the filter mag, it would have stopped it at the filter. I'd drop the pan.
I would think a good oil filter is going to catch whatever comes off that gear. That's what I like about the system 1 oil filter I run. You can take it apart and inspect it anytime you want. I would change my oil, and cut my filter open Tom. And use a bronze gear with the HV-HP pump.
What could have caused the gear to wear like it did? How can I prevent this? I had the same set-up for the last 8 years with no problems. All I did this summer was freshen it up. Thanks! Tom Jenkins
Cause... I'd say high rpm's along with that HV pump. That pump is MUCH harder on the gears to drive the pump. If you go with the bronze gear, you will not have to worry about replacing the cam because of damage to a tooth or more. The down side, the bronze gear will NOT last more than a season or two. p
MAN!!! Maybe thats why my car is stuck in the 10:40's, my bronze gear is over 3-years old(course it still looks like new), its all in the way that the pump is set-up!(and the fact that you don't rev-it-up until the oil is warm) Good luck Tom, I'd check for compresion to make sure you didn't bend any valves, did you change the camshaft? We'll get them next year at the MWBC!!!
Good LORD!! WHEN will the insanity stop? We have preached over and over again on this board against running the high volume / high pressure oil pump. We don't do it just out of thin air. We have seen MANY engines crap out all because of these tall pump gears. Once you get it back up, be sure to listen closely to the valvetrain. The extra effort required to turn the HV/HP pump preloads the front of the cam and drives the front cam journal down into the bearing. Lots of front cam bearings have prematurely worn out due to this. When this happens oil supply to the top end is cut off and you get rocker chatter. Just curious... what made you choose to run that pump? Was it a machine shop's recommendation? Was it a TA or Poston recommendation? We need to find out so we can get to this source and shame them! Hope your mill is OK. It may behoove you to drop the pan and clean it and your sump screen.
this is a direct copy from poston website High Pressure-High Volume Oil Pump KIt The first modification you should make. An absolute necessity for any Buick engine. This important point cannot be overemphasized. We receive many "after the fact" calls from customers whose engines would have been saved by this simple and inexpensive modification. Required for street engines because the marginal stock pump cannot supply adequate pressure or volume as miles accumulate and normal wear occurs. A must for high performance Buick engines as they require higher oil pressure and volume at high RPM than the stock oil pump can provide. This is because the internal centrifugal force produced by the spinning journals forces the oil back out of the crankshaft and starves the rod bearings. No machining required. Saves cost of changing to large 5/8" pickup tube on street engines. Our high volume-high pressure oil pump kit is the best insurance you can buy for your Buick engine. Product Code: PE210 $69.00
That is out dated information. Back in the days when you couldn't buy a decent new timing cover, and yours was worn, the HV-HP pump was a crutch that would get you by. Now you can buy a new TA cover(expensive) or have your timing cover refurbished by using a coating to restore the oil pump pocket(Earich?). End clearance on the pump is critical. If you have a stock oil pump with the proper clearances, it will provide all the volume and pressure you need.
I know. They even have it in their catalog. But look at it this way: If Poston really gave a rat's ass about the Buick community (and your 455's wellbeing) they'd have been at the BPG Nationals. As it is, the only thing they are worth anything for are GS emblems and valve cover stickers. Just my opinion. But hey, I've been wrong before; just not about the HV/HP oil pump. And yes, TA stocks it too. But they won't push it like Poston. They just have it for non-v8Buick people who don't know any better. They'll always try to get you to do the right thing and use their booster plate. Here's another way to look at it: Are Jim Weise, Mike T, Rick Martinez, Doug Hecker or Rod Hendrickson using the HV/HP pump? Or Gessler, Zerucha, Paine or other big guns? If it were really necessary, then they'd all be using it.
I'll have to disagree with this statement as Poston WAS at the GS Nats. and SPONSORED a $1,000.00 to win gamblers race on Friday, I don't recall T/A being there. I guess my question is, why is it ok for one Buick vendor to support only one event, but, its not ok for another vendor to pick only one event??? I'm not trying to start anything here, but, it does seem like at times the board is awfully one sided! And we, being customers should be happy that there are a growing number of vendors that are supporting our events and supplying us with parts, be it restoration parts or perf./racing parts. I chose to support BOTH the BPG & the GSCA, and do so with out bashing the other, and know some other members do as well!!! NOW!!! Back to the original subject here, was you able to find out anything yet Tom?
Yeah Jeff :laugh: :laugh: Quit ragging on Poston. The More Buick suppliers, the better. They just have to be enlightened when it comes to the HV-HP pump. John, He's a little touchy when it comes to the HV-HP pump gears, and what they can do to front cam bearings. It's either that or Dolly developed a pinhole. :laugh:
I apologise. I had forgotten that TA failed to show at the GS Nats. I agree with you in that we should not polarize our troops and instead support all who choose to participate in Buick Motorsports. And I belong to the ROA, GSCA, NE Chapter of the GSCA and the BPG. So if I bash someone it is because that is my opinion and I am also bashing the same clubs I support. As a paying member I feel I'm entitled to do that. Don't get me wrong, I really do like Poston. I have purchased many things from them. But for them to continue to recommend that POS HV/HP oil pump when so many engines have suffered, not to mention the enormous $$$ cost inflicted on the saps who trusted a "Buick Supporter" for correct information. It just galls me. And Larry, all of Dolly "holes" are just fine. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
I've been running the same cam for about 3-4 years. The cam gear looks ok. TA is the one who sent me the HV-HP pump. I didn't have a part number when I ordered the pump and thats what they sent. Turns out that I had the same part number pump (HV-HP) in this engine for 8 years without a problem. I guess the next step is to tear it down and check the bearings????? John, We'll get em next year at 41! My wife told me that was my worst light in 2 years and maybe she should drive. Thanks! Tom Jenkins
