New Buildup! 448ci STG 2 SE Hyd roller.. an MPG motor

Put me into the rest of the "slack jawed" group.

Speechless, here.

Devon

 

Wow! :tu:

 

I do like the period correct colour.:TU: Oh, the fact it makes such great power is a bonus too! :Brow::beer

 

Man, what a HOSS!!! Im seriously impressed, that thing is going to be awesome in the wagon!

 

Very impressive to say the least. If it were mine and I was a working man, I would have to take a vacation to get it together and go racing.

Bob H.

 

Great stuff Jim!

But if you were going for mpg why not use a TBI system with adjustable timing? That's can make a signifcant difference, everywhere in the rpm range.

 

Awesome job! Great attention to detail!

 

Quite impressive Jim.I've got my builder doing a 430 also,but not to that level.
So what is your opinion on the STG 1 heads on the 4.1875 bore.Mine are iron small port 430 STG 1 valves done by your head guy.
I can bet core 430's will be dusted off & bought in response to this thread.:laugh:

 

499 hp 535 tq

---------- Post added at 11:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

I would like a 470 rotating assembly for my 400 block with a set of TA stage 1 TE Heads and see how that runs.

 

Jim

On this build the Stage 2 head was used for header fit.
From a power perspective is there an advantage to using the Stage 2 over the Stage 1 head on this type of engine build?

Paul

 

in my opinion that is the perfect street motor, Drive it easy on the street and then go whoop ass at the track in a STATION WAGON

Leave it J.W, he tries to build a MPG motor and ends up with over 500 hp and torque :laugh:

 

I repeat . . . . WOW!!!! (Re: 448ci STG 2. an MPG motor)

Hi Jim, Paul, and V-8 Buick horsepower addicts!!

First, thanks again for your great work Jim!!

Also, Paul deserves some credit in this exercise because he is the one who recommended that I ask Jim to build this motor when my attempt to have the engine built in the Bay Area started to go sour. So thanks Paul for your good advice! . . . . Although . . . I don't think you realized at the time how good your advice would turn out to be!! :3gears:

Well, after all, she is a billy-goat! :grin:

However, you skipped one detail in your labors that perhaps is important to the final horsepower.

One of the many hassles you had to overcome was that the volume of the TA-Performance Stage-2 heads was much smaller than you were accustomed to. As cast, they would have thrown the compression ratio completely out of whack so that the car couldn't run on even premium. So you ended up having to a lot of porting to increase the volume of the heads. Do you think Jim that this extra work nudged the horsepower up significantly?

Yup that does it . . . . . now I really am scared!! :eek2:

I couldn't help but think that if you get really good at stealth, there would be a diverse group of fellows interested in a motor based on the same principles.

Forgotten in this exercise was my original goal that will have to wait for the installation for be tested: relatively good gas mileage. Looking at the torque curves, it sure looks like it is a real beast even at very low RPM. So the engine should indeed be able purr like a kitten and not use too much gas in the process.

That could be really interesting for guys who want a drag racer that can still function as a daily driver and even perhaps some in the collector crowd who want a Buick Muscle car with more muscle and more modern technology for the driving fun.

So Jim, there may be a long line starting to form for copies of this engine!!

Sure am glad I got in at the front of the line!! :Brow:

Thanks Jim and everyone for all you help!! :TU:

Cheers, Edouard :beer

 

Jim,
1). does the 470 stroker require clearancing the pan like that or was there something special about this combination?
2). do you think it's possible to get these kinds of numbers from a stage 1 SE 470 with modded cast iron intake and exhaust manifolds if mpg or vacuum for accessories isn't an issue?

sounds like the EFI wont add hp over a properly setup carb but does improve the mileage and driveability, is that your experience as well?

Bob

 

Basically correct on the EFI (Re: 448ci STG 2. an MPG motor)

Hi Bob and V-8 Buick assertive engine fans.

Of course I have all kinds of experience . . . . . . err, not quite! :bla:

However, from what I've read that's the main benefits when you go with a throttle-body EFI system. There are some additional benefits in terms of hassle factor. Just has you don't have to fiddle with the carb before driving to a high-altitude, you won't have to fiddle with your carb just before a big event because it the engine shifted out of tune. The EFI takes care of that. So you'll get higher reliability for your car with less fiddling. Admittedly though it is a high cost of admission.

On the other hand, sequential EFI systems I think can provide additional power and certainly will provide better fuel economy over the throttle-body EFI. The main reason I didn't go that route is that didn't find a sequential EFI system that was self-tuning and was proven on a big-block Buick engine. Unfortunately this is typically even more pricey, although not that much more so. If you are bold enough to try to tune the engine yourself, that's another option to consider.

Certainly plenty of threads on EFI in the high-tech forum if you are curious about it.

Cheers, Edouard :beer

 

Is there anything wrong with the EZ-EFI kit? I haven't ever heard anything... hmmm

 

Nothing wrong - but could be "more-better" (Re: 448ci STG 2. an MPG motor)

Hello Frank and V-8 Buick high-tech horsepower freaks,

Lots of positive reviews for the EZ-EFI, so that's why I went with it. :TU:

However, it isn't the sharpest knife in the EFI drawer. Basically it is a computer-controlled carburetor, it isn't really a sophisticated EFI system. In terms of fuel economy, you are better off to go with a sequential EFI system with the injectors in the intake manifold. There are a number of aftermarket sequential EFI systems out there from Megasquirt based to Accel DFI. However, I didn't hear of any one that does self-tuning very well. I personally have a soft-spot for the Mass-Flo system because the physics behind the design is more robust and elegant. Alas, the Mass-Flo implementation doesn't deliver on the theory . . . . so . . . . o No:

I followed your observations and went with EZ-EFI!!

Cheers, Edouard :beer

 

Hey Jim! You want to see what this looks like in a 470? How about a 462?

Awaiting latest front cover/temp/oil pressure info....

-SR

 

WOW!![nice job guys, JIM you are THE MAN!!:3gears:/SIZE]

 

Awesome engine Edourdo! Nice job Jim! Incredible output with such docile manners. Can't wait for it to be in the car and hear it running there and get some mpg feed back. What rear gears are in the wagon?

 

Hi Guys,

Sorry I was offline for a couple days, was up north helping my Mom out with her new house.

Paul, from what we have see in the past SE STG 1 and STG 2 heads are pretty much a wash, with only a slight advantage to the STG 2. Of course one would have to build this motor with STG 1 heads to know for sure if this application benefits from the STG 2's short exhaust runner.

I wouldn't think there would be much difference, put plan to find out.

JW

---------- Post added at 12:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 AM ----------

Hi Bob,

Yes, all of the stroker motors require pan clearance in the front.. the heads of the capscrews on the rods, just barely nick the pan bottom on a stock pan.. or the TA repro.

I also beleive there is a power advantage by getting the front 4 rods farther way from the brick wall (oil pan).. we have seen that in the past.

Sure.. no problem making 500 HP with Iron/Alum/Iron, I have done it several times. Triple iron (intake heads exhaust) is more challenging, but we did that for a customer here in 09.. would have been much easier with a hyd roller, but the new core had not come out then.

Intake is a wash power-wise, but you will lose about 40 ft lbs of torque across the board, with any exhaust manifold at this level. In the past, I had a motor called the Level1AM, which put about about 440-450 HP thru the exhaust manifolds, with a flat tappet cam.


And lastly, yes, This type of EFI is strickly about driveably, and it does very well at that. Power increases in this case were seen from simply the correct tune up. All the carbs were rich we tested, and we did not work real hard at the carb stuff, as it was not important for this particular customer.

JW