WoW, how cool is that about the 2 documented GS verts with the Skylark emblems. Has to be quite a few more??
cjp69 :"It was Joe's (GSXER), so he has the "real story"." Would I be correct if I said that you are suggesting the original body shell can still be properly restored with sourced and fabricated sheetmetal IF the parties involved were highly skilled and well funded? Yes or No please
Brian- look at Gary Steele's (father's?) car... I think everything but the bare shell was replaced. Just need time, patience, skill, and money....
Or look at the link I posted above... Basically anything is fixable. The question isn't at what point does it not make sense... I have 2 serious surgeries coming up - Time, patience, & hopefully I have the skill. Nobody in their right mind would tackle either one but both GS's will hopefully be saved.
When I say re-bodied I mean just as you said Dano, taking a VIN and welding it to a new SHELL, that’s just fraudulent. Keeping the Shell and the VIN intact is all good and just replacing parts to me is just repair, and to most of the Classic Car community also. But my opinion only counts at my house…..
Replaced both doors, 1 fender, trunk lid, roof, trunk pan and braces, outer wheel houses, both 1/4s, two sections in the floors (plus lots of smaller rust rust repairs through out). It is a real Stage 1 car but there were zero matching numbers so saving it would have been silly if someone was paying for labor. https://v8buick.com/index.php?threads/1970-stage-1-frame-off-restoration-project-kokomo.220609/
So as long as the two rivets remain intact, everything else is fair game. I've heard that argument and yes, it all a philosophical discussion/opinion. However, as a former SOS once famously said, "at that point, what difference does it make" except that one has gone through tremendous pain/time/expense/effort to save 2 rivets? Maybe that pain/time/expense/effort is really what makes the difference vs. replacing all the sheetmetal at one welded together assembly.
There is also a partial VIN stamped into the firewall of our '70 Stage 1 near the heater blower motor.
I say do what ever is necessary to save it if you like, but....... everything that has been done should be documented so that the next potential purchaser can make the decision if they feel the price being asked is worth it. Some do not care about a rebody, others do, so let them decide. If I was told that a GSX (or any car) that I was looking at was rebodied and the vin transplanted my first question would be why was that done, my next would be what is your asking price (it better be much lower than an original). I am a numbers guy so the rebody would bother me unless the price was constant with a restored Skylark and not a GSX. Its gets murky when all of the information is not disclosed up front. I feel the same way about re-stamping parts with correct part numbers and date codes. I don't understand why anyone would do that but that is just me. (did I just open another can of worms?)
Agree with the theory - see last line in my Wednesday reply. What I am looking for is a well respected previous owner's opinion of this particular car. There was a rare 71 GS that the owner tried to restore but it was so rusty they gave up. It had been under a tarp and there wasn't anywhere to start welding off of. Some are simply not restorable. We've seen a thing or two, lol.
I was looking at the index list of threads, and wondering why this thread is still going.. Ah.. yes, somebody invoked the re-body tar baby.. Not touchin that deal.. JW
Cans of worms/philosophy is what this is all about Mike. Agree 100% on the disclosure/documentation - Otherwise it could certainly be considered fraud although that goes back to the question of replacing all the individual sheetmetal parts vs. replacing them as an assy. Unfortunately the next owner might not be as forthcoming. Other than the stigma attached to a "re-body" (where ever that line is), I'd probably rather have one that was done correctly & starting w/the correct body (or as close as one can get) than one that some shop hacked up. If I'm doing the work, at least I know what & how it was done. I've cut these cars apart & put them back together but the next two will by far be my most ambitious projects in that regard. I had an opportunity to buy a donor car w/one of my basket cases. PO was going to use it to re-body it. Was the perfect donor - No A/C, Bench seat, vinyl top (mine has a painted top so the roof joint would've been incorrect but could've even be leaded if I'd wanted to). Honestly, I didn't want to be tempted (not to mention that we couldn't come to terms on the donor) as the car already didn't have the original frame. This is on a 350 4-sp car so it would matter much less to the value than on a GSX or Stage 1 - Just happens that I really like 350 4-sp. cars & this is super oddball car, super low option, & two tone green so it checks all the boxes that excite me on these cars. On my last 350 4-sp car, I could've counted the orig. parts on both hands. The basic shell - Inner structure/roof/pass floor/cowl/dash was orig. but the frame, drivetrain, front & rear clips, doors, etc. weren't. Steering column/box, speedometer, couple pieces of glass, window mechanisms & maybe a few other misc. parts were orig. To me, once completed it was still the same car. Maybe that was because I used the orig. shell bit I don't think so - Idk. It was the same VIN/Data plate and the car was built m/l true to it's original form. For my current project, I wound up buying a solid '70 Skylark w/AC & a bad/rusted roof to use as a donor for the floors/tailpanel/rockers/saddlebags. Basically I'll be starting w/a new foundation. Turned out that despite the original shell having possibly the worst trunk/pass floors I've ever seen, the quarters/wheelhouses are super nice so those, along with the inner structure/roof/A-pillar/dash (w/rivets intact) will all be transferred over. I'll be documenting the whole process. My '71 GS convertible will be getting a similar treatment although that one needs quarters/wheelhouses. Been close on a few '71 donors but haven't procured the correct one yet. If anyone knows of a '71 (pref. - '72 shells are slightly different) Skylark w/good floors/cowl, lmk. Don't care about the quarters/wheelhouses/roof/AC/etc.
lol, i think i started the rebody thing on this one. i was kinda bored and was loking for some good fun reading. certainly did not want to upset anybody. we all have our own opinions and should be able to respects others. cheers OK now lets move on to re stamping! LOL
So in that case & w/o knowing the details (frame, orig. drivetrain, etc.), what's better: Relegating a rare car to the scrap heap/parts car status or replacing all the sheetmetal and saving the car?
In-line Frank but if that clapped out GSX is advertised for 65k I wouldn’t feel right offering you less than 130k my friend.
It is strange, my first 68 GS (number matching engine, trans, rear) I replaced the fenders, doors, trunk pan and rear quarters and I never thought twice about it not being the same car. If I had moved all the parts to a clean Skylark (including the VIN) I would not consider it a GS anymore. Can't explain my own thinking...lol I sold the car and had no issues with telling the new owner what had been done. If you take a clean factory Skylark, add GSX trim, a 455 and other factory goodies, but leave the Skylark VIN, is that car now a GSX? if not, why not, it has everything that a GSX has? That Skylark could have been behind/in front of the GSX on the assembly line using the same date coded panels and parts. As I said before, if everything is disclosed at he time of sale its the buyers choice on what is right and what is wrong. This is getting too deep for me Before and after of my 1st GS circa 1984, very rusty but has new doors and fenders attached. and finished 1988
Replacing, anything that can be saved, should be saved, there’s only so many made. Now Charlierogers, as far as RE-STAMPS…..don’t get me started!!!!!!!! LoL!
Fact in point…….., there’s a certain GS Stage1 convertible in Marcos’s registry that is a 100% re-body, I know because I was there back in 1980 when the car was totaled in a wreck and a complete yellow Skylark convertible was transformed with the addition of VIN, paint , GS hood and all the trimmings…..and it irks me to this day that it’s still there on the registry among all the real deals and in my mind Lessing the credibility of the registry.
Now that's a different story, especially if the Skylark frame was also used & it sounds like maybe more than that even. When I use the term re-body, I'm talking about completely stripping the donor body of every part/piece/nut/bolt/wire etc. & starting over - Just like it was once again @ Fisher Body & just like we'd do on a total restoration.
As I said above, simply taking the parts off of a GS and moving them to a Skylark is not what I'm referring to when I say re-body. It would entail using the orig. frame (idk - did '68-9 use the thicker front horns on BBB?) & stripping the body down to the point where it was first assembled at Fisher Body and starting over rebuilding the GS using the sheetmetal from the donor as the starting point and any salvageable parts possible from the GS. That's not to say other parts from the donor can't be used just as they would be if one got them off any other parts car but it's starting out w/a bare shell. One of the factors in deciding not to re-body my '70 350 4-sp (yes, I know nobody cares about 350 cars) is that I don't have the original frame. Now in that case, a Skylark & a GS frame are identical w/the exception of the VIN stamping & the manufacturer's markings & I'm using a frame from the same plant so the markings will be the same. But a bare Skylark & a bare GS shell are also identical w/the exception of some emblem holes but one could just as easily be using rust free quarters off of a Skylark to repair a GS and still have to fill in those holes.
