Yea you did Charlie! I love this debate (obviously) and honestly, I'm not advocating for it - Just pointing out that it's not such a clear cut argument and as you said, in the end, one would realistically have a nicer/more original looking car w/all original spot welds, etc. In the Chevelle/Camaro world, one can buy a new shell - Just like the day it was assembled at Fisher Body. Even for a Buick one can but the pre-assembled foundation (floors/rockers/etc), repro rear wheelhouses, repro quarters, repro roof panel, repro dash, repro rear filler panel, etc. Personally, I won't use ANY of that stuff & I'll take an original rust-free shell over a rusted out one that's been hacked up and rebuilt w/all repro Chinese sheetmetal.
I would be honored my friend however I will need to hash the payment details out with Fast Frankies Financing LLC
I guess I am not going to get the clarification from the former owner that I was seeking. FWIW I wasn't setting him up for anything. How "rebody" comes up in this equation, I have no idea. It's a GSX for crying out loud, and a numbers one at that. It is not a rebody if you start your restoration utilizing the born with shell. If you start with another shell, it becomes a rebuild with all the possible legalities and value implications that go with it. We have belabored this issue to the point where I have given up reading most replies because it comes down to deception. If it didn't, my rebody registry would have many pages by now. I have decided that many of you that run to the rebody answer haven't done much body work and you tend to reach for what appears to be the easy button. This born with shell looks like it can be saved (previous owner implied so) and an attempt should be made to do so. Some of you maybe inflamed by this post. Sorry. Some of you are going to dig deep in the "what if" hypothetical bucket and to you I would offer the famous line said to Scarlett from the movie Gone With the Wind that starts with the word Frankly.
i would love to see this car restored to any level. maybe some guy will save it out of a passion for buicks? just like the old saying "their a sucker born every minute" some cars are just not worth saving.
Not inflamed at all - I'm not advocating for or against really, just bringing up points to show it's really not as simple a question as it seems on the surface. Depending on where one draws the line @ a re-body, & IIRC your definition is once those rivets are cut, that GSX shell, or any shell really can be saved. Don’t need the PO's professional opinion there. I'd certainly save it if for no other reason, the stigma/value associated w/a "re-body." I don't think you'd get any takers on an NOM registry either & just like NOM/trans or a non-orig. frame is going to take a value hit, so should non-orig. sheetmetal but it's actually much less cut & dry w/the sheetmetal as there's many more parts and pieces involved there. An engine or trans is either original or it's not. Sheetmetal could be 1% or 100% original. I think if instead of spotwelds there were bolts holding the shell together it'd be a different mindset but in practicality there's no difference - Every piece of that shell exc. two was available at the parts counter.
At $25-30k with the steering wheel & tach, that car is worth saving if you're doing most of the labor yourself and don't expect to get paid for it. Labors of love is a nicer term but I'm definitely one of those suckers wrt the cars I'm trying to save. But like my buddy who married a stripper, sometimes we can't help what grabs us. Hopefully this works out better for me than it did for him, lol.
Lol... What a train wreck. I think my cars will cost me less and will at least be worth something in the end.
From the thread many years ago. I think he means 2 fenders and 2 quarters... "We finally gave up on the original body after many hours of wasted time and replacement sheet metal. All four fenders were shot, the upper and lower cowl were shot, the rocker panels on both sides were shot. I finally made the hard decision to use a complete unrusted body off the white convertible that I bought as a parts/doner car and move the VIN tag. I realize that's controversial but the GS body was just too far gone. It would have been a jig saw puzzle of sheet metal welded together and I didn't think that would be a good result. I wouldn't want to own or sell a car like that." I very much thank the original poster for attempting to save the original shell, and for being candid and forward about what he eventually did (or paid someone else to do) to his 1971 convertible. However, in my opinion this car/VIN should have ceased to exist along with the body. The drivetrain could have been put into a non-numbers GS455, upgraded a GS350, or even placed in a faithful clone. It would have been viewed on a show field, and enjoyed by the driver just the same.
We're certainly (for now, still) all entitled to our opinions. Other than 2 parts, they all have a part # and were all available at the parts counter as replacement parts. Whether they're replaced individually or as an assembly seems irrelevant if done as I described above (i.e. stripped down to nothing & start over). Again, I'm not advocating for body swaps but I don't think they should be nearly as controversial as they are - No more so than a NOM/trans or a frame swap.
My car is already and STAYING trashed so no real dawg in this discussion And NO that isn’t an “SS” stripe on the roof! Just the back seat “cardboard” I threw up there
Ok. Now that we have pretty much covered rebodies , what about when Vin tags are removed for a restoration and what happens to the original rivets . ; )
I believe that compromises the integrity, but with proper documentation and other VINs readily available on the frame then no harm done.
I have no issue with one taking a car in this X's condition and removing the complete cowl section,fixing what needs repaired, then grafting onto a date correct back shell to save the integrity. I am not a fan of removing the Vin and cowl tag to achieve better results. You 70-72 guys should be happy. Many of the 73-75 GS cars have screws holding the cowl tag to the cowl..That can make a big mess in a hurry..
Ought - oh Scoob. Zoinks! I think you're softening on me Dano It's one step worse than re-stamping engine blocks, transmission cases, carburetors, distributors, and axle tubes because there are documents involved as well. What happened to the days when we would covet a Skylark stuffed with a 455 for the street sleeper? I think Joe already answered that one: "It's unfortunate that money has perverted this hobby so badly. Every freaking aspect of it."
wow i really did not know re stamping a block was worse than a rebody to the majority of the purists. very interesting! i 100% agree with your last statement. it has not just perverted it, it has ruined it completely!
Lol. Not really Brian. I've obviously thought about it a lot and I'm not advocating for it but it's just not as cut & dry as we like to think. I don't really see the point to re-stamping exc. as a fraud - Ok, maybe it makes the restorer feel better or maybe I could see installing a re-stamped carb./dist. on an NOM car but nobody is going to look at any of that once the car is done unless they're buying it. Heck, I don't even see the point in a "period correct" block or a non #'s matching "SS" or "BB" for that matter. It is or it isn't original. But there's probably hardly a car out there that has 100% original sheetmetal. Of course wrt sheetmetal, to a certain degree it kinda has to be period correct.
