200R4 swap - 1st time out

Got the 72 out today for the 1st time with the 200R4 in it. This was just a test run to determine condition of the trans. The stock trans was from an 86 Cutlass, so I expected mushy shifts.

It definitely upshifted too quickly, and shifts were soft. It drove nicely though (IE didnt explode or anything, didnt feel "slippy"), but admittedly I was babying it.

I did notice a vibration at speeds around 60 mph in 4th gear. Never went faster than that. Not quite sure about the vibration. Ive heard that running in 4th gear non lockup is bad because of low fluid flow ending up in burnt frictions. Is it possible I have some chatter?

I do not have the lockup hooked up yet.

I am running a 3.42 posi rear, and have a cam that favors a 2200 stall converter.

The overall trans setup needs adjustment. Definitely a higher stall converter. Probably some adjustment at the TV cable. Definitely a shift kit, and some other mods while I am in there.

I guess I will do the TV cable adjustments and give the current setup some time to sink in. Get used to the trans, you know. Very different feel than my old hopped up TH350 LoL.

I did like the lower 4th gear RPMS though. Incidentally I will probably run the trans all around town in 3rd, and only use 4th on the hiways.

:TU:

 

You probably don't need a shift kit.

On the 2004R you can change the way the trans shifts just by modifying the way the TV cable plays out. I have a transmission from an 83 caddy with a 2200 stall converter and the shifts are pretty firm. They aren't strip firm, but they are firmer in general than any stock car I've ever owned. At first I thought I would need a shift kit but I don't.

The first step is to make sure the TV cable is adjusted properly, both at WOT and at idle. You have to drop the pan to do this right. Without this it doesn't matter what you do to the transmission, it will never please.

I've got a similar vibration at about 60, I've got 2.78 gears though, so when it locks up the engine is loafing. I am positive that is what it is on mine since if I unlock it it quits. The solution for me is to drive faster. :TU:

 

Nice Ken! I'm sure its different from the nice shifting 350 you had in there. Maybe that vibration is from the pinion angle being off now with the trans change? I thought I read somewhere that can happen???

 

Don't get any sellers remorse Ken old buddy, your old rocket shifting TH350 is now nestled comfortably in my 71! Who cares about whiplash when it shifts!

 

My vibration could also be loose wheels. LoL I realized that I didnt final tighten the lugnuts when I let the car down.

I dunno, I will tighten them, air the tires, and see.

As for the driveshaft angle, it should remain the same since the 200R4 output is in the same llocation as the TH350 I had. Pinion angle is the same because nothing changed in the rear.

I do have a line on a good CK performance shift recalibration kit. I need to decide how far into this trans to go (translated:how much money to spend).

I will drive it some more and give it time to sink in. But I want it all, and right now, know what I mean? LoL

 

There are a few of us who have experienced this vibration. Now in my case I replaced an ST-300 so now sure how relevant this is to a THM-350........

The 200r4 sits about 1" lower on the crossmember than my ST-300 did. I have heard of some guys putting a 1" spacer between the crossmember and trans mount to lift the tailshaft back up into the correct position. I have not done this yet, but will be doing so once the weather warms up in 2-3 monthsou: .

You might want to check the trans mount to output shaft centerline of each tranny and compare.

Brian

 

hmm...

 

Ahhhhh i see. I was thinking length not height. Thanks for the posts, guys. I will look into it. Great info!

 

again, thanks. I will look into this and post results. Great link Larry!

 

Brian you were right on.

I pulled the 200R4 to put the "performance goodies" into it, and I measured the trans mount flange to c/l output shaft dimensions. TH350 measures 3" and 200R4 measures 2". Looks like a spacer is in order.

Edit: I ended up spacing the mount and trans apart maybe .33" with a spare nut. Any more would make the driveshaft knuckle contact the tunnelhump.

I cant wait to get that trans strengthened up and back in!
:3gears: +overdrive

 

Installed the updated trans today. CK kit in it, Superior servo, updated pump, and a D5 GN converter (used)

Started it up and shifted thru the selectors to clear the air out then test drove.

First impressions: Motor revs up to 2000 (too?) fast then the car starts to move. Feels very slippy now. Short drive reveals shifts are all occurring, and they seem to be occurring at the right times.

Not entirely satisfied with the results. I am certain I could not spin the tires if I tried to, but I did not want to push the trans yet so I did not try.

Tomorrow I will pressure test and post results. That should give me a better idea. low fluid? T/C stator trouble? leaking circuits? we will see.

At any rate It is in there and now I have to work the bugs out. Another step closer.......

 

Are you using the TV Q-jet bracket that you fabbed? ( http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=170518 )

What about that used D5 - could that be part of the problem? Maybe you could try the other one that came with the trans?

 

Larry- Yes I triple checked the tv adjustment. I did not check it with the pan off, as someone suggested. That *may* be a check to do in the near future, but It appeared to be set correctly.

Jeff-Yes I am using the "fabbed" TV arm on my throttle shaft, and the original TV cable bracket on the back of the carb from the cutlass donor. This setup functioned well enough prior to the converter and shift recalibration mods. Certainly much better than this.

Yes I think the D5 is a very good possibility, though I wont be sure until I pressure test the trans. It "feels like" there is no torque multiplicaton happening ie the stator clutch might be bad. But that is only my best guess at this point.

Soo I have some coffee brewing this morning (yes I am up early...and went to sleep late..... because I couldnt stop thinking about the trans), then about a half days worth of kids and "stuff" at home to do, then its Buick time.

 

Gotta make the wifey happy before Buick time!! A man who truly knows how to balance the two!

 

My wife is SO happy some times - I don't even get my Buick time! ou:

 

Ken, please keep a journal of all the mods you needed to do. I have a 200r4 sitting in my carport from a mid 80's olds. I was wishing that if I left it next to the car long enough it would jump into its new home, but i guess it will need some help

 

I'd like to see that cable bracket that you are using. The one I have will require me to use a carb spacer between 3/4 and an inch for clearance - is that what you did?

 

I will get a pic of the tv cable bracket.

And yes, I found that I needed a minimum of .75" spacer total. So I am using a .5" phenolic with one thin and one thick gasket. Total height right at .750"

Chris- yes I was planning on doing a "swap summary" thread if/when everything is completed successfully and performing satisfactory.

EDIT: pic attached. the tv arm that I fabbed is gold on the underside of the throttle shaft, crescent shaped. You can see the .5" spacer under the carb with thick gasket on top, and the stock cutlass TV/accellerator cable bracket that mounts to the back of the carb.