What the above post said. We usually say "timing chain failure," but what we really mean is "camshaft sprocket failure". If that sprocket hasn't been replaced since the car was new a half century ago, trust me - it needs to be replaced. I would have no qualms about getting the engine running without a new chain and gears, but I would put them on the "to do" list before the first long trip. By long trip I mean about 50 miles. The good news is that other then getting the various belt-driven machinery out of the way, it's a fairly easy chain to replace. We used to be able to buy a timing gear replacement set that came with the timing case cover, the intake manifold water jacket O-ring, and even the front section of the oil pan gasket. BTW: this applies to all of the Poncho V8s from the 326 up. I am aware that Pontiac made other V8s before the 326 - I think they started at around 287 cu in, but these mid-50's vintage Pontiacs were mostly gone before I reached the point where my boss would give me a timing chain job. These engines may predate the horrible nylon-toothed camshaft gears. Tom Telesco would probably know.
This is off topic but that VGG guy is insane! OK got this Cadi running again after 20 years sitting, lets take it for a ride. Oh the right caliper is sticking, let me use some vice grips to clamp it off. What can we do now? Oh I know, lets take it out on the interstate and see what she can do! Survived that, let me make a stop to pic up a few things (comes back with several bottles of booze). Ok now home.
VGG has run its course for me. I liked watching the guy work on total junk and get it running. He used to be a normal guy with a good sense of humor. His schtick of the derelict simpleton has ruined it for me.
Changed all the tires over (to 15's), rolled it outside, washed the dust/dirt off. Started what's going to be a much repeated scene of airing out the interior. Vacuumed thoroughly underhood, found no chewed wires. Carefully hooked power to it, power antenna, interior lights, parking lights/tails, horn work. No smoke or burning. It's weathered storage well, other than the mold that developed in the interior. 1 dehydrated mouse carcass inside, but no signs of nesting or chewing or droppings inside. Must've squeezed in & couldn't get back out. Trunk, floors & quarters are rot-free- only the lower front fender corners have a rot hole. Starting to think about sub-systems and which way to proceed. 100% of brake system needs re-doing... pondering adding the 8-lugs I have for it (have to mic them). I think the most sensible & financially-prudent approach is to make it run, clean it, and drive it. Lot of options would make for a somewhat protracted restoration.
Yikes, the mold on that door is something else! Will something like that cleanup? I’ve really got it made with old cars in Colorado, I’ve never seen anything like that. But man what a great car! The absolute stellar years of Pontiac right there! Have fun bringing her back..... Steve weim55 Colorado
Is that the mold you are cleaning up to the right of the area that’s just finished? That’s science-fiction kind of stuff for someone from my neck of the woods......... Steve weim55 Colorado
Wow cool car. I owned a 64 Grand Prix myself. I love early Grand Prix's. Great story. Keeps us updated. More pics?
Id clear over that psychedelic door pattern for sure... then play some Jimi Hendrix backwards... FWIW... Park it in the sun with a bucket of strong ass bleach water inside, maybe a rag hanging into it as a wick and close it up tight. Let the Al Gore system work for YOU... The greenhouse effect. Gone by tomorrow, especially where ya cannot get at it. It will prosper otherwise. ws Look in the corners for some psilocybin mushrooms LOL...
The worst one I did was a 53 Olds; it had been sitting for a very, very long time. I did everything that Michael (Trunk Monkey) has suggested; the engine rolled freely by hand, no clashing or resistance, and then shot the cylinders full of tranny fluid (essentially what Marvel Mystery oil is) and rolled it over again, and then drained the whole works off and put in new plugs and wires, primed the fuel and lit it off. It roared to life with a ton of smoke and noise, and became quieter when it warmed up. The rad and hoses held; - a miracle in it's own right. We knew we were going to tear that engine down anyway, so we weren't too concerned with preservation, just as long as there wasn't any serious knocking or anything. The oil pressure actually built up and held nicely. It ran until we tore the engine down and figured out why it was parked; it had a bad head that had filled once cylinder up with water and then was poorly patched up. Anyway, the car had a 1970 licence plate on it, and when I got it fired up again it was 2007, so 37 years. The other one, the parts car, had sat since 1969 and was a little more difficult to get running, but it also ran, albeit on 6 out of the 8, and it was quite smokey. But it was actually capable of doing 100 mph; - once, then the fuel pump crapped out. Wish I still had the video.
OK; not such good news today. I had turned the motor at the crank 2 summers ago, about a half turn. Great- not stuck. Now, geared up to rejuvenate the GP, I had pulled the plugs and put a small amount of Marvel Mystery in each bore, just to add to the mix. That was about 10 days ago. Today I pulled all the plugs again (10.5 CR), put a breaker bar on the crank, marked the water pump pulley with a chalk line, and applied pressure. I got 3 short movements, a total of 1/8th of a turn. Then nothing. Got the fan out of the way, put a 12-14" pipe on a 10-12" no-name ratchet and bent the ratchet. Tried once more with a circa 20" breaker bar and nothing. I'm going to see if I can borrow a borescope, and I can put a lot more Marvel down the holes... does anyone have any other suggestions / WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT?
Is the trans seized? If so unbolt the torque converter from the flexplate so the engine can spin freely.
Pushed the car out of garage & back in with nary a sound (in N). Trans still in Neutral when trying to turn the motor. If the trans was seized, wouldn't it have either not rolled or tried to turn the motor?
That's correct, so you can eliminate the trans and shifter linkage as being the problem as it's not seized or you wouldn't have been able to shift it into neutral to get it to roll.
Failure to turn can be several things. 1. Valve stuck open, (piston(s) contacting valve(s) and stopping) 2. Rockers seized to shaft, (preventing valve(s) from closing) 3. Seized camshaft, preventing timing gears from moving, and can account for short interval movement. 4. Piston(s) stuck due to rust in cylinder. Typically if it rotates a bit the skirts can wedge, and you might be able to move the other way. That will feel like it moves, then gets tighter before getting stuck, and often will "pop" loose when going the other way. 5. Broken rod that is getting wedged. My recommendation on anything that did run, was shut off and stored indoors, but not properly conditioned for storage, one can try to prep to start by thinking though and using sound practice. Anything that has sat in weather, or in the condition such as you have run into, (won't turn freely enough) and you want to try and keep and or use the engine, would be to pull it, tear it down, inspect and go from there. One thing if parts are plentiful, but some of these engines are hard to find and getting more so everyday.
