The question is not if they are a hydraulic lifter. The question is do they meet the requirment of: "The complete valve train must be factory stock for the year, make, and horsepower claimed" Minus the listed exceptions of course.
Those rules don't say $hit and you guys know it! You're both just skating around it! Brian, The requirement? A direct replacement part that drops in with no mods required, that weighs within 2%,and acts in the same way as orig (has plunger travel)These parts are bogus but a (high power) ignition system that shoots lightning 3 times as often as it should and requires modification to install is OK with you guys? Sure isn't pure is it?
Yeah Tim,Don't you like how rule no 1 shoots rule no 2 right in the back gangsta style? Donny,If you have a good valve train why worry? MSD Rev limiters are factory then? Oh that is so you don't blow your rare parts up,I get it. Valve train rule should end with rule no 1:Smarty:
You told me they were lighter on page 3 Tom, I merely quoted you,and took your word for it. I have never weighed them myself. This is just my opinion, but I think the obvious advantage to using these lifters isn't the 1/4gram of weight savings, the advantage is being able to run extremely aggressive spring pressure on an extremely aggressive rampo No: The limited travel is just another added bonus. I do understand the concern for wiping a cam lobe, and the benefit these lfters give in that area also.
Uh, I have factory valve train, which is why I worry about having a rev limiter........luckily, my parts are not rare, others, not so lucky. You asked why they were allowed, I answered you.
If you're running stock valve train and points ignition... you probably shouldn't need a rev limiter. Plus, have you paid attention to what's going on at the track: I don't think the majority of guys are driving these cars like they're concerned about breaking stuff!:3gears: :grin:
I spent a lot of money and broke a lot of parts trying to NOT run roller tip Comp Cams rockers. Shifting a 4 speed at 6500?????I don't care what kind of valve train you have, I want a rev limiter. I only missed one 3-4 power shift and the valves floated. Had disconnected the MSD box and converted back to points. Next teardown showed a bent rod. Think that may be related? DUH..........
I have to laugh everytime i read this.It kills me everytime i hear about the downward spiral of this race ,that continues to grow every year.It is a joke!Tom Miller has probably the best plan if more enforcement is needed,if you run in the 11,s,you get looked at closer.BUT,the rules are to use NHRA specs as a guide,cam duration numbers must be within 1% at .050,stock lift.So the numbers at .200 are open game?Maybe,maybe not.Anyway you look at it,an nhra spec motor can be very healthy,but those are the rules boys,live with it! I basically deal with Pontiac engines,and i can tell you it is very difficult to find some of the higher end parts that have not been massaged in some way.Almost all the heads have at least been milled.And then there are the dreaded roller tip rockers,that are legal.Thanks Dan for letting us run these,as original pontiac rockers in the RA4 ratio are impossible to find,and if found are very expensive.They do nothing other than not break. As far as the S&M lifters,never ran them,but if they can keep my hydraulic cam from wiping a lobe,it sounds like money well spent to me.I have never heard so many people cry about the rules,etc,of a race with no prizes,or a clearly defined winner.Its a race for fun event guys,why dont some of you guys give it a try?With no WHINING!!The FAST guys when i raced in thier class,had much better comraderie,maybe us pure stockers could learn from them.
Dave , I'm confuzzed. So are you saying you like roller tips or not. Pick one - Fish or chicken hahahahhaa:moonu: sorry left over joke. Being a 4 speed car I have a rev limiter, but just the crane points conversion. No high power flamer that shoots fire 3 times. I actually think my ACCEL points worked better. But I too surcomed to catastrophic failure after the 8000 + rpm trans scatter. Thus the rev limiter.
1. Yeah, what he said:gp: 2. With respect to the rockers; at Martin FAST 08 my SD 455 was run back to back with (full roller 1.65 ratio) and without (stamped stock ratio). There was NO difference. 3. Merry Christmas
What FACTORY cam required non-FACTORY lifters ??? I don't care if they have 1" plunger travel or .00001" plunger travel. What factory cam would be wiped out with a factory lifter ....... uh - HELLO, NONE !! If you can't run the cam in your vehicle without factory parts (read - roller rockers), how is it PURE STOCK ? I ran the first small block in the 12's with factory (read- crappy) rockers and off the shelf hyd. lifters. AND it was an Olds for Gods-sakes....... So, knowing what it takes to make a car run, an SM, BDSM, Buttram or any other lifter is a bunch of BS ...... PS - Just a note .... just because we run Pure Stock doesn't make us un-educated or mis-informed ..... I'm known as the village idiot around here for other reasons ....... I'm gonna make this my Signature: Just inforce the rules that are already in place .....
Tom Miller,I know you quoted me,and that was my point.I led you on with that. I'd be willing to bet alot of you guys that are wanking about Ricks Firebird have no first hand knowledge of what the car is made of.How many of you had the balls to get down on one knee and look for a electric fuel pump at Stanton? All these claims are made all the time about 904/727s and this and that and lightweight lifters blah blah blah.Yet nobody gets DQ'ed.I think when it comes down to it you don't know $hit about what makes the other car tick.None of you know what kind of lifters he has.Chanches are you wouldn't know even if you saw them. Scott and Rick know,innocent until proven guilty is how it works here in America.Yet we aren't even sure if they are illegal.You are all willing to get on here and claim somebody else is cheating.Way to treat the new guy. In my case I am a cheater before I even show up and being a member of this site for 5 years isn't long enough. I've asked for first hand knowledge before of some evil deeds.I said send it to me in a pm with no names.No pms sent.Just keep blathering on though. Casey,it is not my intent to try to sway anyone for or against SM lifters.I could give a rats ass personaly.I'm sure I won't be using them in PS.My point is if all this other non factory garbage is used why is this silly little lifter a huge issue? They seem "just as stock" to me as some of the other equiptment that is no where near being stock.Just another part to throw into the "grey area" I guess And, as far as your post script goes, I think you are wrong... but it's not "just because we run pure stock". Also, I'm still waiting for some one to pony up and show me my wrist pin boss with a borescope with my T cover and oil pan on.Still no takers and I'm wondering why?
Let's be careful not to accidentally confuse (a) wanting to rein in the rules, with (b) the witch hunt of labelling someone a cheater. This thread is about the former; and the "purists" are basically saying that it's the best way to deal with the safety and insurance issues that are quickly (sorry for the pun) emerging as real concerns for the event.
