Well... I hate to do it, but for safty purposes, I'm needed to put a cage in the car over the winter. Could some of you feels post some pics or send them to me via email of your cages? I was also undering if it would be legal to "Pin" both the side bars, and the bar running across the back of the seats (that would sure make it nice for the boys and their car seats)? Thanks for any help you can give.....
Rich, My buddy Dave Knutsen in Seattle just sent me a note that he's had very good luck with Morrison cages, ie good fit, good folks. I don't have link to them but can probably be found with a search or someone here will have it.
My 12 point has swing out bars on both sides. It is NHRA and IHRA legal. I am not sure if you can make the rear bar pin in or not.
Thanks for the info Gary.......... However, I think Chad and I are going to custom bend / build the cage so it fits snug as possible. Chad has a really good idea of how he see's the cage, but we would still like to see some pic's to mabey broaden the idea. It would also be nice to find out of the bar behind the seat could be removable.
I know that I'll need one, but I'm torn about putting one in my car. I'm afraid that I won't be able to get the dash pad or trim panels out with a roll bar in the car.:af:
Mine will only be a 6 point cage, so the dash will be able to be removed. I had to put on in my car too (never really liked cars with cages) but at this point, it's a safty factor. The cage will be made so all panels will be able to be taken off the car (fingers crossed )
I did the same thing in my '70 convertible years ago. Both side bars and the back bar were pinned. The tech guy at my local track kept breaking my chops about not having a back bar, so I asked him if I could use a pin kit like I had on the side bars. He said the rule book doesn't say that you can't and, as far as he was concerned, if it's legal on any part of the cage, it's legal everywhere on it. This was no fly-by-night tech guy either. He's been doing tech at Island Dragway for 40 years. Just keep in mind that if you have a rollbar, you need a harness. Most likely with the shoulder belts attached to the back bar. It's not legal to attach the harness to the floor unless the bolt goes through some part of the frame under the floor. Good Luck!
Take a moment to reflect.. Welp, Just to give you another bone to chew on... Consider what you want to do with your car... obviously, according to your Sig, a real nice 71 GS 455. Your going down a road that turns it into a race car, and as you know, speed is addictive. You will go 11's and want 10's.. 10's and want 9's.. Your at a crossroads now.. one I have been at before. Look down on road: Ok, we can put in a roll bar now.. but when I build that new motor in a year or so, then I will have to have a cage.. to go into the 10's.. and then a certified 14 point cage, to go into the 9's.. a couple upgrades later.. And before you know it, that beautiful steet car you once had, is a race car, and your selling off interior parts.. Look down the other road: Go find a clean 70-72 Skylark... down in AZ, or maybe even local. Pick it up for $3k.. decent paint an ok car.. Transfer your motor, or build the new one.. To make a long story short, build a race car.. Yes, seems like a ton of money to put out (and it is), but we are young yet, and you will get there. I have what once was a perfect, numbers matching 70 STG car... in pieces, with the trunk floor gone (and it was perfect too.. :ball: ) If we had stopped to really consider all the options, we would have went out and picked up a Skylark.. Too late for that car. Not to late for yours. On to the techinical questions: You need, to go into the 11's, and be NHRA legal.. A .134 wall 8 point roll bar, swingout side bars allowed. Everything else must be welded. NHRA approved swing out mechanism only. To go 10's, you need at least a 12 point cage. My advice? Build a race car. Roll cages do way more than make a car comply with the rules, and IMO, putting one in for that reason only, is more trouble than it is worth. If your going to put in a cage, you need to put one in, that supports the chassis, and becomes a structural member, and makes the car faster. Even if it takes a few years. That first 9 second blower pass will be worth it. And believe it or not, if that is the direction your going, it will be faster to get there with the new car, than it will be to spend a few years and plenty of $$ with your current one, and then decided to build the new one. A good alternative to building from scratch, is picking up a decent car someone wants to get out of, and I have seen a few of them for sale this year. Don't underestimate the cost to build a new one, but at the same time, evaluate a purchase carefully to make sure your not going to have to rebuild the whole thing anyway. Just something to think about, before you dive in head-first. What your contemplating with the six point bar, with removable seat support bar, won't fly with the tech inspectors. JW
Re: Take a moment to reflect.. Jim, PLEASE Don't do this to me man, you had me scared there for a minute. Even to the point that I checked the rule book online and some of the info you have above is off a bit. The following is copied from the nhra.com site......... heres the link of anyone needs to see it themselves http://www.nhra.com/contacts/tech_faq.html "When do I need a roll bar or roll cage, and what should it look like? A roll bar is required in any convertible running 13.99 seconds or quicker in the quarter mile, "and" in other cars ""beginning"" at 11.99. The roll bar is accepted in vehicles running as quick as 10.00 second e.t., provided the stock firewall and floorboard is intact, other than for installation of wheel tubs. The rollbar must be constructed of minimum 1 inch o.d. x .118 inch wall mild steel tubing, or 1 x .083 chrome moly tubing," That will get you "legally" to 10.00 as stated on the web site. If the floor/firewall is unaltered that is. I went into panic mode when I read your post thinking "my car passed tech 3 weeks ago, what the heck did they change on me?",lol. Anyways..........just wanted to help and calm down after nearing heart failure and having to rethink all of the upcoming winter plans. later.........................
Have to agree with Jim on this one Rich. You have a beautiful genuine 71 GS car, and you'd be going down a road which would make it a racecar and not an exceptionally fast street car. I completely respect the fact that it is your car to with it what you want, but wouldn't it be easier to get a plain jane Skylark and and build that in to a racecar? ( if that is your goal? o No: ) Besides declining the value of your GS. do you really want to put a rollbar - cage in it? Don't get me wrong I love a Buick racecar, but I absolutely have a much deeper appreciation for a stock or close to stock, fast genuine unmolested Gran Sport. For whatever you decide I hope you reach your goal. Good Luck Just my opinion. John
Ya, your right Dave.. I forgot they changed the rule here a few years ago.. and my Regal had an altered firewall, so it had to have a cage. 8 point bar to 10 flat.. if floors and firewall are unaltered.. JW
Wow.. Just scoped out that link.. They must have upped the size of the roll bar tubing.. 1 3/4..... ick.. 1 5/8 is much nicer to work with. Ah... build a Skylark with a 14 point cage.. then you can use lots of 1 5/8 and 1 1/4 tubing.. Also note... "Cars with and OEM frame must have roll bar attached to the frame" That means big holes in the floor.. They used to let you weld them to plates on the floor... but that went away, when they started letting them go to 10 flat.. They upped the tubing size, and mounting requirements. JW
Rich Been down this path many times with my own cars and others over the last 35 years,a true and fast streetable GS,especially one like yours,keep it 12.0's,high 11's,after that ,get a "lark and build the race car your going to end up with anyway.Don't ruin the nice ride you have. The purpose built race car will ultimately be less expensive and safer,and give you lots of room to go faster when the need for speed bug bites,and it will,your always lookin for that extra tenth. My son has a 70 GS 455 that we eventually got into the 11.5's as a street car,went the swing out bar cage route,whats he got now ? a 10.5 sec 69 skylark race car,and the 70 is back to a nice mid 12 sec street car,sans cage and a lot of work.But,hes truely happier now,and safer. Heed Jims words,he and I have been there ,done that. gary
From reading that NHRA page, it looks like 1 3/4" tubing is acceptable down to 10.00 in an unaltered floor/firewall car, with a roll bar. The cages, which go to quicker than 9.99 and/or running 135 or faster (beginning 10.99 altered) moves to the 1 5/8" bar. Here's my question. What do the two bars coming from the crossbar behind the seat, and angling inward attach to? The GS350 race car that I'm getting from Jerry (gotbuick) has an Art Morrison 8pt cage, but these bars aren't there. Here's a link to the cage: http://www.artmorrison.com/8pointcage.htm Essentially, that's all the more it appears to need to be ready to go WAY faster than I can afford. :TU:
WOW....... Thanks for all the kind words on the car guys :beer . Here's my outlook on what was said......... For starters....... My Wife would litteraly sting me up by my "Nads" if I bought another car to build :grin: ....... One other big point is at this time, I really don't want an all out race car. I make it to the track about 2 or 3 times a year if I'm lucky.... .plus the track sucks here (that plays a big part in not wanting to go). I really love having a fast Street Car. That's the fun of it for me how many guys out there can say they have a car that runs on PUMP gas weighing in at 4200 (with me in it) that runs 11's (possibley high 10's with the new gears and a bit more tune) on 17 inch Street Tires that are 26 inches tall ?? Not very many especialy up here. That's what it's about for me. I enjoy driving the car on the street, to show's / Cruise's. My GS will never be a All out Race Car. I SWARE on that. I couldn't bring myself to do that to it (even the the # matching motor was long gone before I got it ) The only reason I need to put a cage in it is for the "saftey" factor. I do drive it on the streets (that includes tunning it on the streets :eek2: ) It's really a safty factor for my wife and kids. There's also the factor of when I do go to the track I really don't want to "Hold Back" or get kicked off . The main thing here tho is safty. As much as I don't want a cage in the car I feel I need to do it for that factor....... and at this point, I KNOW I wouldn't be happy crusing in the same car running low 13's again...... Anyway... thanks again for ALL the input. Keep it coming. Man I Hope I can put a pinned bar in back there........... That would sure be nice for packing the fam on a nice Sunday Drive............ I wonder if it woudl be suffecent enough for the Buick Events? I've noticed quit a few cars running the 11's with no cage time and time again......... I'm not after a certified race car cage just something that will alow me to run the little bit that I do and add some safty to the car....... however that may not be possible....... Thanks Guys
Rich, I'm gonna throw my .02 in because I did something similar a few years ago. Had a '70 SS all tricked out, mostly street car but the occassional track gatherings. Car was heading into mid 10's. Needed cage for track. Also needed something for my own safety. Had young wife and kids. Decided to go with a simple 6 pt. setup for my own well being and chancing the toss at any track meets. It worked out to my benefit in the end. When I decided it was time to move to another project, it was minimal body patching to restore it to original condtion. I ended up getting 22K for the car. If I would have gone the full cage route there would have been no turning back. Dedicated race car, lots of $$$$$, and another classic would be lost. Do what is right for YOU! :TU:
Hey Bill......... That's exactly what I'm talking about / facing. While I LOVE to go fast, I do need to stay alive for the kids and wife . ..... I will be putting a simple cage in the car.... chances are with a removeable bar (in the back). It may not be certified, but that's not what I'm exactly after. I'll just have the car teched as a 12 second car. Once it into the 11's, what are the odds they will pull me off the track to see if the cage is certified? Chances are they will just peek in and see that it has a cage........... (don't you think). That may atleast alow me to run a few more passes........ I think that's the aproach I'm going to take. At this point, Safter is more important than "car Value". Plus whatever I do to the car, will beable to be undone........... after all, I know the car inside out and upside down........... Everything is fixable. I'd still like to see some of your guy's cages. Rich
Rich, it doesn't have to be certified until you go into the nines, so don't worry about that. If you're only gonna race at your local track, do like I did and ask the tech inspector what he thinks about a removable back bar. Regardless of whether it's truly NHRA legal or not, he's the only guy you need to worry about, right? It worked for me for the five years I raced and drove my '70 droptop.
Hey Guys, I'd really like to see some pics of your 6 or 8 point cages....... can anyone send me some pics or post them here on the boards?
