Cooling issue on idle; waterpump(?) combo(?)

There are a few people in line but a board member is selling a TA pump:

https://v8buick.com/index.php?threads/ta-high-flow-water-pump.381945/#post-3349688

 

I'm gonna do an inline pump on my race car,...talk about moving some water! AND CHEAP TOO

 

That Taurus fan looks to be woefully inadequate. Poor radiator coverage and the original application is probably a 180 horsepower v6 with aluminum heads.. I'd start there

 

I paid up....put the Hi-flow TA pump on my 455. So totally money well spent. Nothing else changed, brought coolant temps down to normal consistently in the summer. Never ran above 175 degrees. Only prob now, up here in New England fall temps, I actually put some cardboard to keep it at 175-180. Great waterpump, worth the money. You and feel and see the difference from a stocker

 

Doing the math, my pump should spin 40% faster than it does now. Instead of an overdrive of 31% I have a 7% underdrive. Centrifugal pumps don't behave linearly, but we can all see this would result in a significant loss of flow. As it is now, that's never going to work. I do not even meet factory specs here, which weren't even that generous if I understand correctly. So step 1 is correcting that. I had my doubts on the stock replacement pump from TA and they indeed recommended me the performance pump.

I can understand why people would have doubts on the Taurus fan setup, but I'm actually pretty confident that this is sufficient. To give you an idea, it's only marginally less then a Lincoln Mark VIII fan.

I chose this setup because I didn't have a shroud, nor clutch to start with and my radiator was also leaking. I only had a flex fan and I really don't like that. I've read some stories they sheared off. So I liked an electrical solution.

The pump ain't cheap, but engine damage is more expensive.

 

In your first post you mentioned you put in a 190 degree thermostat. Where did you get it? I'd like to run a 190 in my car but haven't had any success in locating one.
When I got the car there was a 195 in it, I switched to a 180. In the spring and fall I find it to run cool, on the hottest day in the summer it'll run down the highway at 194 then cool down in the city to 185-190.
The shop manual calls for a 190 , thus the search.
Any help would be appreciated.

 

190--192--195 degrees--not enough difference to be concerned about. Buy whichever is easiest to source.

 

I bought it at the auto parts store in Europe. From the shelf. 88C.

Water pump will arrive tomorrow. Just for the fun of testing; when I let it "idle " at 2000-ish rpm, the temp will drop. When I drive (same speed) a gear lower, the temp will drop. So it's definitely a flow issue.

 

If I knew I would

 

Thanks Larry I like your idea, that thermostat could possibly be modified. I'm going to test the 195 I took out and see what it opens at, I thinks it'll be 195, that's what my gauge showed when it was in the car.

 

IF possible I will ALWAYS buy the fail safe stat. When it fails it fails open. Normally they fail closed & if your not paying constant attention you overheat & cause overheat damage.
To me well worth the extra cost.

Tom T.

 

THIS IS NOT TRUE. It is a common but very silly assumption that I've seen posted on multiple internet forums. I believe that Motorad knows about this mis-conception but allows it to flourish through inaction aside from a quickie note on the web site, including some inaccurate information that hints at thermostats always failing "closed". It's deceptive advertising. I need to replace the thermostat in my K1500 because it's failed OPEN and the engine never achieves normal running temperature.

The whole point of the "Fail-Safe" thermostat is that when SOMETHING ELSE fails and the engine overheats, the 'stat locks open as a (useless and un-needed) response to the other failure that caused the overheating.

They even say so on their web site:
https://motorad.com/products/fail-safe-thermostats/

They are not--in fact can not--design a thermostat that won't fail in the closed position. That's the nature of FAILURE--unintended operation. If something fails, it's either doing something it's not supposed to, or not doing something it is supposed to. If failure could be PREVENTED, you'd never need warranty work on your new vehicle, never mind just the thermostat.

But wait. It gets worse:

Any ordinary thermostat that hasn't failed, will fully-open just like a "Fail Safe" thermostat that hasn't failed when the engine overheats. The ordinary thermostat will allow the same sort of "free circulation" as the Fail-Safe during the overheating, but when the overheating has been corrected...the regular thermostat goes back to normal operation. The Fail Safe thermostat is now scrap metal.

...which makes the "Fail-Safe" thermostat an EXPENSIVE GIMMICK.

 

Motorad. They are the worst quality thermostat that I've ever seen. They could give Dorman a race to the bottom of some of the worst aftermarket auto parts on planet earth.

 

Motorad owns Stant and several other potential thermostat brands as well.

Edit: Motorad also makes the Duralast and Murray brands and is an OEM Supplier for many brands. (Volvo,VW, GM, Chrysler, Audi)

If you are buying AC/Delco branded in hopes of avoiding Motorad, your chances are not clear. They definitely provide some parts, but not all of them.

 

We avoid all aftermarket stats if at all possible on the newer stuff. If it has Motorad stamp on it, I won't install it. I don't want to buy someone an engine, and a customer certainly won't be happy. Todays choice was on a 2013 Prius. Motorad was $10 less than OE. Motorad was readily available. OE needed to be ordered, 2 days out. Easy decision right there. We'll finish up on Thursday.

 

Last night I ended up finding a 190 thermostat that fits! I wouldn't tell the guy what it was going in, I already know what he was going to find for me. He was a little frustrated and said I have all sorts of 190 thermostats here. The first one he grabbed off the the shelf, he said here do you want to see what this one looks like? I said sure, he presents me with exactly what I am looking for, what's the chances???? I learned back in he late 70's early 80's that sometimes you just have to go looking and chances are you may just find what you are looking for. My dad needed a new clutch for a 1931 chev he was restoring. He found an exact fit clutch from I think it was a mid 70's corvette, go figure? He found if he told them he was looking for a part for a 31 chev they'd just throw their hands up and say they couldn't help him. But when he was looking for a specific size of a part often he came up with something off a different car all together. Mind you that was in the days before the wonderful world wide web. How times have changed.