First Test- KBR Super Wildcat Billet heads

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by Jim Weise, Dec 14, 2018.

  1. TrunkMonkey

    TrunkMonkey Well-Known Member

    "Oooh fuuudge!"

    (Only I didn't say "Fudge." I said THE word, the big one, the queen-mother of dirty words, the "F-dash-dash-dash" word!!!)

    That engine is not Italian. Nothing Fra-gee-lee about it.
    OHC JOE likes this.
  2. ken betts

    ken betts Well-Known Member

    Thanks Jim, It takes a great team to put this together and in short order. For a bracket motor I was only expecting 1000 hp. But WOW! and we have only touched the surface. This took a lot of sleepless nights and long days and now... a change after Christmas to see what else can be rung out of this motor. Our goal is to offer all these parts from stock and assembled short blocks on the shelf ready to go.
    I want everyone to know the CAD files are being worked on for a cast head with water right now. My goal is 1000-1200hp NA with no costly expensive porting.

    I want to thank JW, Mike B, Mike E, Mike G, Ron F, Brian, John E, and everyone else I missed!
    OHC JOE, Todd69GS and Julian like this.
  3. Julian

    Julian Well-Known Member

    Awesome progress so far! How different will the cast heads be from the billet version?
  4. 2stg14spds

    2stg14spds Well-Known Member

    Good work it's sure fun to read and watch can only hope to aquire a set at my first refresh of the 555
  5. ken betts

    ken betts Well-Known Member

    They will be a lot lighter! We are going to upgrade the material so the ports will be as good as possible. I want the cast head to flow over 500cfm right off the mill with no porting.
    Julian likes this.
  6. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Hi Tom... your bottom end is exactly the same as this one, so you will be all set..


    Ideal, they will be no different other than maybe a little lighter in weight, but no one can answer that until we actually see them.

    I will say, that if I did not know better, I would have no idea that it had billet heads on it.. There was no cooling issue at all, either on the run stand, or the dyno. We were watching head temps.

    I will be looking for any signs of heat stress when I take it apart after Christmas.

    Thanks guys

    Julian likes this.
  7. Gallagher

    Gallagher Founders Club Member

    Slightly different view.
    65Larkin, Footbag, OHC JOE and 2 others like this.
  8. Todd69GS

    Todd69GS Silver Level contributor

    Great write up Jim. Kudos to all involved for taking our platform to the next level.
  9. Todd69GS

    Todd69GS Silver Level contributor

    Jim did I miss the compression ratio and fuel used?
  10. Mart

    Mart Gold level member

    Super package you guys are putting together there!!
  11. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    14.4-1 and we used both VP C-16 and Q-16 and Mike's own special mix of E-85

    Made 1045 with C-16.

    There is more there with the Q-16 but it would have taken half a dozen more dyno pulls to wring it out, I wasn't interested in the dyno racing, just curious about it.. I had never used that fuel. It does make more power, and useful to put yourself on the same playing field as everyone else in testing, but it's some nasty stuff.. stinky and corrosive and expensive.

    Was down on power with the E-85 race fuel mix, we did not pursue it hard, wanted to be sure of the fuel first.

    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
  12. Julian

    Julian Well-Known Member

    Estimated cost for completed heads?
  13. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    q16 does make good power, lights off at lower temps than c16 does so works well in intercooler boosted cars. at 116 octane plus the extra oxygen it will be more consistent even in the summer heat.

    but it is 20 buck a gallon roughly, and it loves to absorb water so leaving it in the carbs or tanks for a few weeks can start to cause issue.

    it does also require about 6% more fuel to the map as compared to c16 which is roughly the same cost per gallon and has a wider tuning window but does take more temp to switch to a vapor. c16 in intercooler motors or if racing in colder temps.......below 65f, does has trouble vaporizing in that lower intake track temps reducing power, causing a lean condition inside the motor at time of firing but looking rich externally with some black smoke

    c12 is around 16 a gallon for a bracket car that might see 6 or passes a day depending on number of test run and classes entered......over a 3 day race weekend this can start to really show some hidden cost depending on how much fuel is used per pass.

    I'm sure this is using more than a gallon per pass
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018

    JESUPERCAT No Slow Boat

    Ben cost is why I like methanol.
    I have my nitro @ $26.00 a gallon if I need more
  15. Bens99gtp

    Bens99gtp Well-Known Member

    if I got to out more than just a few times a year my car would be on alky as well, but it and sitting can cause issues too.

    but not to side track this subject. 1.9hp per cube on a motor planned to go several hundred passes without major service is a true testament to the level of parts were are talking about here. most builds that full out builds seem to in the 1.7ish hp per cube area. as where a 600hp 464 is like 1.3 hp per cube.........shows the true potential, and this is the first go. give a few years and ppl find out what a combo like this really wants and likes and get all that done we will 2.2, 2.3, or more hp per cube without boost..........cant wait to see what these will/can do with 20psi pushing through them
  16. 1972 Stage 1

    1972 Stage 1 Well-Known Member

    Congrats Ken, Jim, and everyone else who was involved in the development and testing of these heads. I can't wait to see the power levels once they become available and all the heavy hitters have a chance to add them to their builds.

    Jim - I read you are planning to be at Quaker City with your car. Can you share with us what motor combo you are planning on having, or do we have to show up to find out? Just curious if you will have more KBR goodies to unveil?

  17. badbuik

    badbuik Well-Known Member

    Not to be negative, but what are we comparing this too??? What kinda numbers do we see from a 555, 14.4:1 compression, with stg 2 SE,TE, stg 3, or stg4's and a roller cam to match each kind of head??? How much difference is there, how much more "bang for the buck"? Gary G.
    slimfromnz likes this.
  18. gus455

    gus455 Well-Known Member

    Jim I know you used line to line APC coating on the piston skirts and I know that this wears in over time. What was your piston to wall clearance with the coating on the pistons? I have heard that its initially almost size for size with the bore and then self clearances itself upon initial run in.
  19. ken betts

    ken betts Well-Known Member

    Not a negative question, I don't have all the costs but I can tell you the heads bare were priced under 5k. You can figure just about everything else.
    I know of 2 motors with S2's ported with rollers. Aren't the newer S2's suppose to flow like S4"s? Both had single 4bbls. One at 814hp and one with 830hp. You can call a couple places who make intakes. We will be making intake kits for those who like to weld. We are looking at a way to bolt pieces together. Might be less to just weld them but we are looking at it! Remember this is just a start. Only 2 dyno pulls were made with the race fuel. That means we haven't even tuned it yet!!! At least 2 more motors are being built this winter and they will both put out more horsepower.
    slimfromnz likes this.
  20. Julian

    Julian Well-Known Member

    Gary's is a S2TE and one carb and almost 1200hp.albeit swinging higher.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018

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