new Buicks Well then again, some of us DO drive new Buicks and enjoy them!! I currently drive a 2002 Buick Rendezvous and it has met all my expectations for a vehicle of this type in this class. With 93,000 miles on it I can speak with some authority on the reliability of it also, it has been rock solid!! So when I wear it out, I will again be in the market for a new Buick, probably a Rainier. I will continue supporting Buick and continue being a "flag waiver" for Buick. Although, if GM would drop Buick, I would not just move to another GM brand - my business would go elsewhere.
I don't think Buick is in as much danger as Pontiac. Pontiac really has no identity in comparison. At least Buick stands for something - the great American sedan. Saturn also is in better shape. They've got a great dealer network, some great models in the pipeline, and a very loyal customer base.
Saturns are very popular with the RVers. They are one of a very few cars that can be flat towed on all 4 wheels and also be a automatic transmission. Jim
It is interesting to hear many people say they will not buy foreign or non-GM. I'm not attacking anyone, but I think GM is aware of the sentiment, and perhaps that is part of why they don't seem to care.
GM rant The engineeers no longer have an influence on what goes on at GM. I just finished re reading JIM Wangers book "Glory Days- When horsepower and passion ruled Detroit" GM kept pulling in their horns in the 60's and again inthe 70's when they were reaching 60% market share. They were so scared of Washington breaking them up,that they did not want to ruffle any feathers. That started them on the slide towards branding rather than divisions. Other than the 6 cyl, did any GM divisions share any engines prior to 1977 when the Olds with Chev engine debacle started the downhill slide. Remember the X cars of 1980, All 5 divisions had their own piece of crap. I am not suprised that GM will kill off more divisions. I think the latest cars from Buick are sharp and I have taken a good look at them at the dealer (I am not in the market for one but do admire what they have done) They might be able to save Pontiac as soon as they fire Batmans designer and make the cars easier to look at. The only decent car in the past two years from Chev is the Malibu (built from SAAB parts)-what does thet tell you? Cadillac has a sports car built on a Corvette Chasis-whats next a GMC Denali sports car? Just read yesterday they are discontinuing Quadrasteer, is my Yukon XL a collectors item or a Dinasaur? Seems they did not do a good job of educating their dealers how to sell the option. I should know I has to search through a car broker in order to find mine. Gm also doesnt get it when it comes to specialty vehicles either. Give credit to Chrysler for the PT Cruiser, The Prowler and the Viper. Ford have a hit with the new Mustang, and the GT and soon to be Cobra. GM ShEEEEEEEt, they built a retro truck!!!. They already have market share in the truck world! Speaking of Ford, I have told my car broker to talk to his Ford Contact and get my name in for a Shelby Mustang!!! 450 horses and great looks. I love my 442's but they might as well come from Studebaker as far as GM's recent heritage is concerned. GM just doesn't get it!! ou:
Saturn was subsidized by the other divisions right from the get-go. Primarily Oldsmobile. They had an internal "contest" for quality of subassemblies (especially stamped and welded sheet metal stuff), andd Olds won that hands down for quality. Unfortunately, GM gave them a double poison pill by first sourcing so much to Oldsmobile that it tied up all their capacity to the point that they had to go buy components from other divisions (and outside suppliers) of inferior quality and higher costs than they could have made themselves. The second part of the pill was when GM priced the transfer of the parts to Saturn on a marginal basis and didn't even cover tool amortization at Oldsmobile. Also did same at other divisions, but not to the same degree. They started putting Olds 350's in other brands for California emissions in 1974. The Nova family got them in California only as the Olds was the only 350 that could meet the strict California standards that year. In 1975 when the Catalytic convertor came in, the other divisions reverted back to pretty much their own engines. Olds led the march in reducing emissions back then, that's how Bob Stempel got the jump to move up in GM corporate management. Then came the Olds 350 diesel (Ugh!) in about everything, ran the Oldws engine plant short of engine capacity and had to put 350 Chevies in (they were selling a lot of cars in the 70's when others were down). Later there were the Chev 305's in the 442's, Olds 403's in auto trans Firebirds. etc. etc. No surprise that Saturn's struggling, no one there to cover their sorry asses any more. Someone else said it perfectly. When the divisions started being only brands instead of independently run divisions (with GM Central Office micromanaging them), it all started to fall apart. They started playing one division against each other (within their guidelines and regulations). Lutz announcement almost led me to believe that's what they're doing again with Pontiac and Buick. I, too, would love to have a new Mustang. First one I've liked since the 67-70's. Until then, I'll continue to drive my old Ford truck and our 2 Mazda developed Ford vehicles (ZX2 and Escape). And my next new car? Nissan (Altima or Maxima), Acura(TL), or Lexus GS. There is no comparison in the big 3, and never will be. We had our chance in the 80's and blew it.
I say they drop Buick, give Pontiac a chance with the G6 and see how it does, halt GMC and up production on Chevy trucks. They also need to find new marketing for the Monte Carlo. I like it, it's a nice car, but sales are flopping. The dealer in town here has had the same car outside for so long one of the tires is flat. The H3 won't do anything for Hummer. They are as far as they will go. Saturn is doing fine, so keep it. Chevrolet needs to refresh the Impala, or keep it the same and find a new midsize sedan to accompany it.
new fellow, I come in peace? Arn't you the new fellow that named his intro thread "I come in Peace"? Well, coming into a Buick site and saying drop Buick hardly is going to win you tons of friends and accolaides. New Monte Carlo? the ugliest car ever to be made by Chevrolet in my humble opinion -that body was old and ugly the day it came out. Drop Pontiac! - revamp the G6 into a Buick, give Buick back it's Soltice (AKA Bengle) that GM raped from it to give Poniac - Shoot the ugly Aztec, add a coupe to Buick and like magic - Poniac is gone. Oh, and don't forget, Pontiac doesn;t even have a big car since the Bonniville is going.
WHAT??? DROP BUICK??? :rant: :rant: 67Wildcat2post, them's fightin words!! :rant: :spank: send saturn to mars, and pontiac to the scrap heap!! chebbys ain't nuthin but junk!! :rant:
No, I love Buicks. I wish I had one. I was just speaking in terms of financially. They aren't selling any new Buicks, even though I don't know why. If they keep Buicks, then they will be making less money, but spending the same amount of money, therefore, prices on cars will rise due to less profits, and prices are high enough, if you asked me.
GM's biggest oversite and the best evidence that they have yet to remove the crack pipes from their mouths is their ridiculous belief that any consumer really cares about "moving up through the GM brands"....most consumers could care less. Patton
I have a 2000 Impala that I've had some ABS trouble with. I got onto an Impala chat line, very similar to this site. They were posting motor and tranny problems with those cars. All of them had the 3.4L motor and the tranny that goes with it. We have the 3.8L motor, and a different tranny. They said the cars with that combo had a great motor and tranny. The motor is a BUICK motor transplanted into the CHEVY Impala. So the Buick motor is more reliable than the Chevy, and they want to kill Buick? Now that really makes sence for GM, but nobody ever accused them of having too many brains :af: Dan
But, they are selling a lot more Chevys than Buicks. They ought to just put Buick motors in all Chevys.
quickly learning I think we are quickly learning "I come in peace" what typ e of attitude you will be bringing to the board.
Amen. Amazing how many people are progressing through the Big 3 right now that really think they have "the answer". But are still restrained by supporting the "system" in an aura of "teamwork". The system sucks, they blew it, end of story. New people don't even understand how the system worked before, and how many of us are retired early sitting back and watching as the "brains" and politicians (but I repeat myself) run it into the ground. R.I.P. GM won't die, neither did GE when they lost the entire electronics business in brown goods. But it'll never be what it was. Management today doesn't have a clue what made it great in the first place.
What type of attitude? I'm not being a smart alec, I'm just saying what is true. I love Buicks. They are some fine !@#$ automobiles!
In 2006 the montecarlo and impala are going to be redid. So far the monte is uglier than ever, wofff. It does have an optional V8 with front drive though, a step up in my mind. The impala doesnt look too bad, for a 4 door. Same optional v8 for the SS, still front drive. Look at the GM website for more details, they have full sites on the 06's. Should be in dealer by august, I wont be in line..... The fact they put buick motors in chevys, is rediculous. GM does not build a 3.8 for buick and a 3.8 for chevy. The 3.8 started with buick so everyone calls it a buick engine. There all the same. Is the LS2 a chevy engine cause it started with the vette, or a pontiac engine with the GTO? Same case, two different answers. There are no brand unique engines anymore and that is what has really hurt GM in my mind. When you look at it does GM need to compete against its self in this hard times market, no. There will be one performance rear drive 4 seat car, GTO. There will be one race car, Z06. There will be a few sedans, all share same stuff except options and sheetmetal. Only 1 luxo 2 door, montecarlo. Cadilac with have the highend luxo, preformance. Where does buick fit in this? BIG CARS! Like someone said no more bonne, and chevy has no offering, so BUICK. GM is trying to give each division a nique, buick will be big cars. LOOK FOR A REAR DRIVE BUICK ON A CADDY CHASSIS soon!!!! That is within 2 yrs. No one is going bye bye soon, other than maybe GMC?? All just my opinion, based on what I know and what I think will happen.
Don't need to drop brands, NEED to drop UAW Get rid of UAW, hire people from the top all the way on down to the people sweeping floors for "reasonable" wages, then they would be able to cut new vehicle cost's by about half :Smarty: Then when they sell car's, it actually could be profitable :laugh: But instead, we see janitors making $20+/hr ou: ou: ou: ou: ,and I won't even get into what the fat cat's at the top are pulling down. The big three are the ones to blame for the current state of our economy,as they are the main ones that started the outpouring of work across borders. They want all their junk components built dirt cheap,yet they don't give any of that cost savings back to the American consumers :af: I'm sure this little rant won't sit well with some of you(mostly UAW workers), but I'm sorry, this is my opinion. Oh yeah, Buick will get the axe before Pontiac.
