The more I read on this site the more I'm convinced that even though someone may have 30 years experience re-building carbs they may not be aware of where to get the best kits or do the job the way it should be done. So how do I find a Quadrajet to go on the engine I'm having built and know that the carb was done right? I'm not worried about numbers matching issues. I only want a good carb, re-built with the right parts, at a fair price from someone that can be trusted. Are there Quadrajet models that I need to avoid? What is a fair price for a good re-build? The carb will go on a 455 with an auto trans and is being put into a 72 Skylark. Many folks tell me to stay with a Quadrajet while others say move on to a Holley.
I think for $20-30 for a core, and $20-40 for a rebuild kit, building a Q-Jet is worth it just for fun! That way you can build it the way you need it to be. You can always got to the Holley later. I have an adapter plate for my Demon. The way to tell an 800 cfm Q-Jet is to look down the primary bore and you'll see a large dimple midway.
Give this guy a call; Danny Ashley 765-674-5102 He is from around Marion, IN. He is a good, honest, church-going man and he is also good. He will be able to answer any questions you have and point you in the right direction. Tell him Randy Franklin sent you.
Cliff Ruggles who wrote the Q jet book is a Board member and vendor here. He provides a better kit with more parts than standard. JW has done a number of carbs for me and has a stage 1 Q jet for me now. His carb rebuilds made so much diffence in the performance and idle of our 455s. So you have a lot of options. Everyone has their favorites for various reasons.
Actually it does sound like fun. I picked up an old junk Quad just to take apart to see how it worked. But I've invested a lot in getting this engine ready and I know that I won't do it justice if I try to put my first rebuilt carb on it. I'll save that experience for some other project.
"What is a fair price for a good re-build?" I've come to hate the word "re-build" over the years. To some it means installing a "kit", setting the float level, and placing the carburetor back in service. A correctly prepared q-jet should get the throttle body rebuild with bronze bushings, throttle plates correct indexed/set at 90 degrees, machined flat on both sides. Bottom plugs pressure tested and screw in plugs installed with fuel compatable epoxy (JB Weld dabbed over them is useless). The main body will need unwarped on about 30 percent of the castings, and the airhorn straightened/machined flat as well. Most will need recalibrated, and upgraded for ethanol in modern fuel. Since some models are different, not as good as others, modifications for high performance use becomes manditory. What we see these days, is that everyone changes one or more items in the basic engine and drivetrain "recipe". This mandates carburetor modifications, recalibration, performance mods, etc. When working with the q-jet, keep in mind that they are all emission calibrated, and application specific. Most will be quite conservative for idle/off idle fuel. This gives them a bad reputation for high performance use. The actually have an excellent idle system, and with a bit of help there isn't anything out that that will idle better or be more responsive or smoother off idle. Early designs are difficult to use in high HP applications, and that particular problem has given the entire design a bad reputation. These days LOTS of folks have chosen to build their own units. We have been selling a lot of books and HP kits, and getting excellent feedback from our customers. I've been keeping track, and to date we are up to 5 folks who purchases the HP kit, bushing install kit, our book, then threw the towel in and sent them here for us to put together! I see nothing at all wrong with doing your own work, most folks know their limitations. With a bit of effort, most can get through a carburetor rebuild without too many issues. Besides, it saves time, money and makes the hobby even more rewarding.....Cliff
What we should take from this is that THERE IS NO KIT AVAILABLE that equates to a top notch rebuild without the additional work of fixing all the possible issues of the castings that parts alone can't fix. That's not to say that you can't get around unwarping the main body and still have a carb that works... but you won't necessarily know if the carb could work better if you didn't cut corners. Same goes for the JB Weld fix (I'm guilty of trying that one) and replacing the throttle shaft bushings (guilty of trying to get around that one too) As far as who sells the best kit... in my opinion, Cliff does. PERIOD. (unless someone can show me a kit that includes new brass idle circuit down channel restrictions and/or wire drill bits of sizes between 0.046" and 0.052" to help me fix my mistakes ou: ) If someone can match up someone else's kit with Cliff's and say it's better I'd love to see it. I don't know about the "saves money" statement... Probably makes sense if you're talking about a stock rebuild on a carb with no issues on the castings, but I've spent a lot more on tools, backup Q-jet cores from E-bay and an Innovate air/fuel ratio meter in order to teach myself how to tune my carb to my 455 mods than it would have cost me to have a pro make one for me. That being said, I did have the opportunity to purchase one of the last carbs that Mr. Osborne had available, but I balked at the idea of someone being able to build a carb perfectly for my car without having to do some adjustment to it after it was installed. Plus, I'm not done with the mods to my car... he asked me what type of plugs, the gap, make of the plug wires i am using... Crimmony! Will I need a pro to rebuild the carb everytime I do a tune up? plus I want different gears... and I haven't figured out how to get Mother Nature to stop messing with the temperature and barometer readings in my area. How could one carb setup possible do the trick? ... CAN'T that's why I'm trying to learn how to do it myself. Maybe Cliff's right. Maybe it will save me money in the long run. (although three or four rebuilds from a pro might be less expensive than what I've put out so far) All in all, I can't argue with the statement that doing your own work is more rewarding. It's really the only reason that I got the car in the first place. Sure, I'm learning that doing it yourself doesn't come without the cost of mistakes (boy, I should really have spent the money on aluminum heads instead of trying 10:1 compression, port/polish/unshroud/update to Stage 1 valves/install exhaust valve inserts... with my cast iron heads... damn thing pings with racing gas fer cryin' out loud) but, on the other hand, I personally can't think of a better way to make the hobby more boring than to have somebody engineer everything for you... (not that there's anything wrong with that...:sleep: :sleep: )
Do what Jim Weise and John Osborne and Cliff Ruggles and Greg Gessler and others did... figure it out yourself:grin:
If you get anything out of my previous post, it should be that no matter who you choose to build your carburetor for you, the level of effort put into it may not be the same. It's no different with engine builds, transmission builds, etc, and exactly why I have come to HATE the word "rebuilt". A high percentage of the "rebuilt" items I see associated with this hobby were probably better off before someone started messing with them! I get to see a LOT of work these days sent here that was done elsewhere. Grabbing up a pretty Eastwood spray painted unit off of E-Bay from a shop with a fancy website means nothing. The guy probably works as a janitor for a Chemical company during the day, and pushes the beer cans out of the way on the picnic table in his backyard on nights and weekends, in order to "kit" carburetors. No names mentioned, but one of the fanciest websites we have seen in recent years resembles my previous comment to the "T". Our book describes complete/correct rebulding, and performance mods, custom tuning, etc. We've sold enough books with HP kits to know that most get thru the experience successfully. As with most things associated with this hobby, you always have the ability to seek professional help if you get in over your head.......Cliff
Ron, the only way to know that you've spent your money well is that you end up with whatever result you're going to be happy with. That's a vague-as-hell answer, but what do you really expect? If you are getting an engine built for you, I think the hope would be that that person knows enough to rebuild and set up a carb too. Otherwise, how do you know you spent your money wisely on the engine if the person doesn't know performance from top to bottom? Are they align-honing the mains? are they doing all the oil mods that make sense for the proposed use of the car? Do they know what bearing clearances to use? If you want the best, the people with the most experience are the ones to do the job. There are a lot of opinions out there and more than one opinion could be right. The problem is, you don't know who knows the most or who's right unless you know a good bit yourself. Even using this Board, I've listened to some tell me what is right... only to find out from experience that they don't... or that they left out some bit of information, or that I misunderstood what information was being conveyed. Sorry for the lecture... I need to spend some of this energy on the car!!
I have my second rebuilt Quadrajet on my white ragtop 75 Lesabre with 455 the and my mechanic is saying that it will need to be rebuilt again. Is there a reliable vendor for a stock new/rebuilt carb?
Cliff R, FWIW, Danny charged me $350.00 to do my carb. last Dec. He said his prices were going up in '09. For the price of $350, I had to provide my own core. He did everything you listed in your first post of this thread. When I picked it up, he put it on a test engine so I could hear and watch it work and I was very pleased. My whole carb has been re-plated to look like it did when it was new, every screw, every linkage rod, and every clip. I'll bet he charges $400 now with a customer provided core that he can work with. Anyway, not cheap, but still a great deal in my opinion. Randy
If done correctly, $400 for a complete unit, correctly prepared with plated parts and zinc/chromated castings is very reasonable......Cliff
FWIW, I don't keep track of what others are doing in this industry. Cripe, I have enough trouble keeping track of myself. I can tell you for certain that ethanol has completely changed the business in the last couple of years. Do NOT expect or assume that any over the counter kits contain ethanol resistant/compatable parts, or even the correct parts. There are NO exceptions to this rule, ALL of the companies, Highgrade Standard, Echlin, Borg Warner, Walker, etc have either went out of the carburetor parts business, went out of business all together, or got bought out/murged with another company. Currently, there is only one major parts/kit supplier left, and they will NOT step up across the board with Viton parts, as they still have several million dollars worth of "old stock" left to dump on the market. They consider the carburetor parts industry a sinking ship anyhow, so don't expect to get good parts from any over the counter source. If you pick up last months copy off HPP Magazine, we went to NAPA and bought an over the counter kit for a Pontiac HO carburetor. It had the WRONG needle/seat assembly in it, it was NOT Viton and the wrong diameter orifice, cheap/soft white plastic accl pump with soft rubber seal, and just a few gaskets and small parts. We put the accl pump in fresh fuel, and it swelled up and fell off the pump in about 30 minutes. As far as "builders" go, NEVER assume because a guy has a relatively "fast" car running a Quadrajet, and does his own work, that he's knows anything about complete/correct rebuilding, and how to custom tune the several thousand different part numbers of Q-jets that were made over the years of production. For example, there is a shop in Canada that specializes in circle track q-jets. They will only build ONE PART NUMBER, which is some late Cadillac unit. They just so happend to "hit the nail on the head" with the jet/rod combination on that particular model/part number. They will NOT build any other number. FWIW, and IMHO, absolutely and utterly rediculous, as any casting can be outfitting with any calibration in about as long as it took me to type this response. One should keep in mind however, when working with the q-jet, that each unit is not only emission compliant, but it was application specific. And "custom" tuning has little if anything to do with jets and metering rods, in and of itself. I see that nonsense on every website I visit. Someone will jump up and recomend a jet/rod combination that would have/could have been found in a factory "high performance" carburetor to throw into someones grocery getter carburetor that they are trying to place in service on some highly modified engine they've put together. Talk about a quick and ugly way to wash down and destroy your fresh $7000 550 HP engine! If you get a copy of our book, it will become quickly apparent that the combination of tuning possibilities is nearly endless, and that the jets and metering rods used in any particular unit, were complimented by quite a few other items in the carburetor, right down to the fuel valve inlet diameter, fuel pressure for that particular application, and float level (for example). I'm not trying to put a big black cloud over anyones stuff, or rain on anyones parade. Just the facts folks. If you want to build your own carburetors, I highly recomend doing so. We have a business with a full inventory of good parts, to help, and offer technical assistance as well. We specialize in Quadrajets, and have stepped up to the manufacturing level, having parts made as they become discontinued due to lack of sales at the retail level. I also test everything, street, dyno and at the track, and place anything we sell in long term exposure to ethanol fuels. I also give up more of my time than anyone else I know on various website with free advise. I figure it comes back to us in the big scheme of things. In addition, there is no mystery here, no magic wands, and no hocus-pocus. The Q-jet is fully capable of doing anything you ask of it, you aren't going to go any faster anyplace with anything else, at least till you start running sub 10 second quarter mile times, and we have units that will be competive in that game as well. There are no big secrets either, arm yourself with information, use good parts, and know your own personal limitations with these sort of things......Cliff
