Howdy! I have my 71 Riv in the shop, and this is just out of curiosity. Around,And in, the back window channel, there is quite a bit of rust. how the heck do they fix that? I bought a FULL set of quarters from California that have that channel and are really good shape. I guess a full quarter replacement? Also, how endangered is my back glass getting removed? Should i start looking for a new one? Thanks, Just wondering. I have never been up on the bodywork aspect of a car, but hopefully I will learn!
If the rust is really bad pulling the glass is about the only way to fix it right. I wouldnt worry about the glass getting broke. Ive seen it done several times and the guys that do it know how. I had mine pulled and replaced with no problems or leaks.
I just did a repair of my channels, primered, painted, and installed the front and back glass. I wrote a thread about it that I think would be very helpful. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=213405 Pretty much, they just cut out the rust-ridden part, weld in the new piece, grind it flat. Then comes the filler/primer/paint. Depending on you're preference, some put filler on before primer and some after. Basically, you spray a layer of epoxy primer to seal the metal from rust and waterproof it. Then you spray high-build primer on top of that which is the primer you sand down. It is "high-build" because you can spray a lot and not have it run everywhere. Then you can spread body filler in large imperfections like small crease dents or small dents. You then sand everything even with by block sanding or DA (dual-action) sand everything down and redo the filler/high build primer as needed if it's not perfectly straight because any imperfections will show though on final paint. Then you seal off the primer/filler with a sealer. Then you can do paint whether it be single stage (just one spray) or two stage (one stage is paint, the other is clear coat) like cars are usually done today. There also multiple types: enamel, lacquer, and urethane? (I think that was the name) If you have rust holes in your channels, you definitely have to take out your windshields if you want to get it fixed correctly. If yours look anything like mine (you can see throughout my thread), then you will need to weld up the holes closed and then smooth them out or just simply cut out and replace the metal. Part of my channel is made of 22 gauge (IIRC) sheet metal from Lowes. Unless you're clumsy, you don't really need to worry about getting a new windshield unless it's already cracked or it's pitted and hard to see through or whatnot. I reused my original windshield and back glass. I was able to get my back glass out by myself and I got my front windshield out with a little help from a friend because of it's odd shape. The whole repair took me around two months I think because I didn't have my liscense yet so it wasn't urgent that I got it fixed. Just off an on work. I hope that answered some of your questions and if you have any questions about the channel repair, I should be able to help.
Thanks for sharing the link, Snowman!:beers2: I've done everything on all of my GS's except bodywork, so it will be an adventure to replace front & rear window channels on my '70 GS Stage 1, along with 1/4 panels, from someone who also has no welding experience, either! Although, I own a MIG welder, and have plenty of friends who can teach me, or weld it for me, I prefer to learn and do it, myself, so I know it's done the way I want it done, correctly, not in a hurry to make mistakes! For all the windshields & rear windows I've removed from Skylarks, I have NEVER BROKEN ONE, as I still have all of them (even an excellent convertible rear glass that I removed from a top that couldn't be saved!)! It scares me to have a glass shop tell me they "can't guarantee the glass won't break during removal...", when they are Professionals, and I only take my time to remove the glass, as an amateur, only using a razor knife!
Hey man, I read that thread a while back and just kept my mouth shut but I just have to ask you not to try and help anyone do bodywork. The internet is a great thing but I don't want people to see your pictures and think that what you have done is helpful to that car. I guess that is the sad part that what is making these old cars undesirable now is the amount of bodywork it takes to fix them. Your car needs way more work done now than it did before you tried to fix it. I don't think it is anything that can't be undone, but it just wasn't properly repaired. Sorry. I sort of wish that I could make a living helping young kids with their classic cars, but the time involved just doesn't work out with a mortgage. For those of you with MIG welders, look at the seat fire in the thread he linked. I saw a kid do about 8 grand in damage to a Toyota Tacoma in under a minute so watch what you are doing. My buddy had a Nova with a rusted trunk floor that also got the top of the gas tank, he got 4 miles per gallon with that car until he realized that his car leaked gas out the top of the tank. Don't kill yourselves.
Pictures would be helpful. Buy an old rusty fender at the junkyard and practice on it before you work on a car you care about. I have worked with guys who have been bodymen for years who can't weld to save their lives, not to mention the "cave it low and pave it with dough" filler mentality that exists. If there are any local community college welding or body work classes you can take, I highly recommend it. Don't get too good at it or you will never be able to stomach going to a classic car show again. The things I see give me nightmares, especially when I find out that an owner paid good money to get their car butchered. The last one I went to a year or two ago made me sad, I walked up to this nice looking (from a distance) silver and black 69 z28. There was a 3/4 inch piece of bondo hanging off the front corner of the hood. I just had to turn around and go look at something else before I got sick. I watched Musclecar on tv today and they turned a solid looking 70 mustang into a rolling abomination with Duplicolor brand autozone special paint. To say that the car would embarrass Maaco is an insult to Maaco.
Then again, he's just a 16 year old kid that took some uneducated initiative to fix his own car without the benefit of someone's professional expertise. You "kept your mouth shut" when your insight could have been of some benefit. It doesn't hurt to point out a better way of getting the job done. :Smarty:
It was already done. Elvis shouldn't have done drugs. Doesn't help now. I didn't want to be mean to the kid because he only butchered one car because he tried to do something he doesn't have the skill or equipment to do. A million dollar gift certificate to Harbor Freight won't make you good at something. When I was a second grader, I had a class in which the teacher asked us to write instructions on how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. All of us wrote something like this..... 1. Take bread 2. Put peanut butter on bread 3. Put jelly on bread 4. Put together and make sandwich I will never forget it because she taught us to think about what we wrote and what would happen if someone read our instructions but didn't know what bread was or how to put the jelly on the bread. Did we need a knife? What kind of bread should we use? Where do we even get peanut butter? In this case I know for a fact that I couldn't tell the kid how to repair that properly on the internet. I don't visit this forum that much and only came looking to see if anyone was talking about that poor mustang that Musclecar butchered on tv this morning. I just got my final issue of Car Craft a month or two back and I opened it to see some hacks butchering a nice Mustang to make it a fastback. What a waste. I thought it quite appropriate that it would be my last issue. Until they fire the whole staff it will be just that, the last one I ever pay for.
Problem is, he had done the work on it before anyone (of experience) could direct him in the proper repair procedure. I cant even begin to tell you what kind of stuff like that I have to cut off and redo at my shop. Here is another prime example http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=212517 And really would he have listened to me if I said seek profesional help dont touch it.........o No:
I still give the young man respect for trying. If he's happy with it then I am happy too. Everyone has to start somewhere. My first A/C install was an abortion but it worked. I saw Bob Vila do it on TV and then bought the stuff and did it too. Looking back its a wonder it ever worked. 20 yrs later I do it for a living.(Much better looking and functioning systems)I dont do body work but would like to learn how someday.
:gp: I do agree that there is a correct way and more importantly a safe way to do everything, but experience cant be taught. And sometimes you do have to just jump right in.
Wow. I'm sorry but I don't see any other reaction to this except to say "what the hell?". What wasn't properly fixed about it? I welded in new metal and smoothed it out instead of fiberglassing or just caking filler into the hole. There's now a solid metal base under it with some metal filler to make it smooth for paint. And how was it "not helpful to the car?" It doesn't leak anymore and it looks pretty damn good and would look damn-near perfect if I put more time into the grinding and filler sanding. I repaired rust holes in my car's windshield channels for under $200 including putting the windows back in. It's functional and looks good from the outside so please elaborate on what was wrong with it. I know I didn't grind the lower part of it. I know it looks chunky in those few parts. But they're covered up by either butyl, windshield, or interior. Who are you to ask me to not try and help anyone with bodywork? No one else responded to his thread and I've been reading and learning about it for a few months so why the hell not? Just because I'm not a bodywork jesus doesn't mean I can't give a few basic pointers? EDIT: and how have I "butchered one car because tried to do something [don't] have the skill or equipment to do." How the hell am I going to get better at something if I never start? Should I just invest $10,000 in welding supplies and body work tools just to find out that I don't find it appealing? No. That's stupid. I'm starting small and seeing how I do. I think it turned out pretty damn well. "A million dollar gift certificate to Harbor Freight won't make you good at something." No ****. But it'll give you a place to start to see if you have the aptitude to learn and get better. Just because I'm not rich means that I'm not allowed to do body work?
You have a right to get fired up snowman. No one responded to give direction. But for the proper info you would need a book. For being 16 I think that's awesome work for your first job. I know guys in the field that have done it for 40+ years. They only do it one way. Theirs through experience. Trial and error. Imagine how they started when there wasn't an internet. After years went by they would hear how long their bodywork lasted. It was all trial and error. Some even look as good as when they were done 30+ years ago. Bodywork is a learning curve. Now that there is info on the net info is alot better and products are better also than in the past (except epoxy primer with lead). Ray
I wouldn't take it to personal. This is just 1 or 2 guys opinion.Most of us here support you. Take it with a grain of salt. Read, learn, look at pictures and if theres a next time you'll do an even better repair. I think what is the important thing is that you jumped in there and did it yourself and it works.
Im really shocked at you guys(bodyman & Mike)ou: You both being professional body guys,i would expect your recomendations on having it done professionally but...he's a kid with limited finances and obviously at least desire to learn. To chastise him about his efforts surely goes against the whole spirit of sharing & helping this board is for.I'm dumbfounded two senior board members would post such negative comments to someone so willing to jump in & at least tryou: Snowman,i have a basic bodywork book i'm done with,it's yours for the asking.Send me a PM with your addy if you want it.:TU:
Snowman-the only thing i saw bad was the flux core welder you purchased ,its ok for muffler shops but doing what we do you need the gas sheilded welder.Taking charge of your own repairs is awesome,but knowing the right tools is part of the job. The main thing of any rust repair is properly addressing the backside of any and every repair you do,the outside can be perfect but one speck of moisture on raw steel can turn the best repair to crap in notime flat. REMEMBER RUST NEVER SLEEPS! Its works hard 24-7 to turn our cars into piles of dust.I'm happy to offer my knowledge to anyone that will listen,there is always someone that knows more than you me and everybody else. There are no dumb questions,just dumb answers!!!
Thanks for your responses guys. cpk 71 - I originally got that welder just to learn how to weld. It was like $89 at Harbor freight and It's helped me weld up my exhaust with a new muffler and give me an idea on how to MIG weld. Then I started the windshield project thinking it was just a bad seal, I didn't expect all those rust holes except maybe a few small pinholes in which case I had a gas MIG welder that I might've been able to borrow for a short time from my dad's friend. When I saw I had to do open heart surgery on the rear channel, I didn't want to waste time waiting on him (he had already committed to let me borrow his welder... a month or two before...) so I just went ahead and got to work. I also had to pour all my funds into sheet metal, clips, butyl, lacquer thinner, welding wire, a wire wheel, primer, paint, etc. instead of getting a better welder. How much would the gas cost and where would I get it? I'm working on getting a job at a locally-owned computer store right now. My two passions are cars and computers and I'm a pro at computers and working at cars. So hopefully I can get a job there and get some financing for my car besides my private computer repair (which still brings in $100-$200 a month but it's not very steady.) 65specialconver - Thanks man. And I PM'd you about the book. Briz + RG67BEAST - thanks guys.
Exactly. I can't help but wonder if there are any professional bodymen who's first job turned out perfect. I applaud you, Snowman :beers2: How many other people your age have the balls to do what you have done so far. Heck, most of them are still wasting their time riding skateboards. And where would your Buick be if you didn't save it? Keep going, I can't wait to see the finished project :TU: I was fortunate enough to have had a lifelong bodyman to tutor me when I was young but not everyone has that luxury. If you lived closer I would teach you myself.
Ok ok look..... You guys need to relax here I started out doing body work under the strick guidance of a shop owner. I had to do it his way or get out of the way. You guys can bad mouth us "professionals" all you want for speaking out against the "home" repairs but the real deal is we have had to go back and redo jobs that were home done for years. I for one can say that if it werent for those home repairs the bill would be 20-50% less in some cases. Having to follow those repairs sucks. There is a saying I say it alot. SEEK PROFESSIONAL ASSISTANCE!!! Everyone has a career path. I dont do lawyer stuff for a reason, Im not good at computers for a reason, Im a body and paint guy. Im damm good at it too. Why? because I didnt try to teach myself the trade I went to the best, got a job there and listened to "professionals" I did exactly what I was instructed to do. I became one of the best painters in this town inside of 3-4 years. I got better at body work over the next 2-4 years. And I never once did any home repairs till I was truly satified with my work (but really are we ever satified with our own work) I know some of you guys can tell stories about where the wrong person did the wrong thing in your own lines of work. And since snowman is the intended target I will use his deal as an example. For the record he had welded it and slopped body filler across it way before I got to see the thread and comment on some ideas for him. But since he did, he cut it out ok but what did he do after that? Just welded metal over the old rusty metal below...There are some proceedures to follow to insure no further repairs are needed. Should have sandblasted the rust back to insure it was cut back far enough. There are zinc coatings that make the metal stay rust free for a longer time, the chicken splater welds suggest that there is minimum penetration so that a future problem. The molding clips werent even removed for the glass trim before the body filler was put on. I could go on but Im just a "professional" He did it all yes without much help yes ......On inititive A+ So listen before you guys all get on the beat up the professionals for speaking out band wagon remember we spend days having to redo jobs like this over and over. I guess us "professionals" would like to vent a little ps. I remember my first paint job 70 GS brown on brown with GSX stripes and a matching trailer.
