Did anybody hear what Glenn Beck said about the anti-Christ last night on CNN?

You can't justify or prove any religion from man's point of view, it would be too scewed. Kind of like describing color to a person blind from birth.

There are six beliefs:

1. Buddhism, where there is really no god but you can attain a zen or godlike state with the proper effort. You get to set your own standard of righteousness here.

2. Hinduism, where there are millions of gods and you can be one too with the proper effort. You get to set your own standard of righteousness here.

3. Panthiesm, where there is a god or spirit in everything (ie. religion of the indians of this country and the natives of South America). You can attain that god/spirit connection with the proper effort. You get to set your own standard of righteousness here.

4. Islam, where there is one god who is completely controlling and you must follow all his rules. With the proper effort you can attain his acceptance. You get to set your own standard of righteousness here.

5. Judiasm, where you can never be justified completely by your own effort. You can never be righteous enough here.

6. Christianity, where God says I will make you righteous because you cannot do it on your own. The only religion where a god shows mercy.

Which one do you think is real?

Any other "religion" is an offshoot or combination of the above. With everyone wanting to set their own standard of right and wrong we have a world that is going insane. Besides who on "earth" will we get to be the final judge?

Now, to my point, just because you've never met Him doesn't mean He is not there. I have met God. But I can't give you my image of Him you must get it on your own, mine would be flawed because I must put Him in human terms. I can only take you to Him and introduce you.

The fastest I've gone is 9.2 at 143+ in the quarter. So I can't really comprehend what it is like to run 8's or faster. You can describe it to me but I'll never really know what it is like.

I've flown a piper cub tail tragger that went 90 knots with a tail wind. I can't really comprehend what it is like to fly an F-18. An F-18 pilot can describe it to me but I'll never really know what it is like.

You have to get your image of God from God! If you choose to not meet Him, that is your choice but you are wrong when you say He is not there.

The Bible is not a book written by men, it is God and anyone who adds to it or deletes anything from it will be severely dealt with, ask Voltaire (read his dying words). Want to prove the Bible is real it is very easy. In any gathering of people discuss sports, politics, religion, weather, liberals, conservatives anything you like. Read from any book you like. Some will agree, some will disagree, some will argue vehemently but they will remain in the discussion. Now read from a Bible and watch the reaction from those same people. Some will agree, some will disagree but some will leave. Darkness cannot be around light and they must leave. Works every time.

Mikey

 

If you believe in evolution through proof, and we know following is true

Nothing + Nothing = Nothing


Therefore in the begining, Nothing + Nothing cannot = the creation of the world.

The proof argument, is more reason to believe in God the creator.



Tom

 

Those arguing against creation may not even be conscious of their most basic presupposition, one which excludes God a priori, namely naturalism/materialism (everything came from matter, there is no supernatural, no prior creative intelligence).2 The following two real-life examples highlight some problems with that assumption:

A young man approached me at a seminar and stated, Well, I still believe in the big bang, and that we arrived here by chance random processes. I dont believe in God. I answered him, Well, then obviously your brain, and your thought processes, are also the product of randomness. So you dont know whether it evolved the right way, or even what right would mean in that context. Young man, you dont know if youre making correct statements or even whether youre asking me the right questions.

The young man looked at me and blurted out, What was that book you recommended? He finally realized that his belief undercut its own foundations such reasoning destroys the very basis for reason.

On another occasion, a man came to me after a seminar and said, Actually, Im an atheist. Because I dont believe in God, I dont believe in absolutes, so I recognize that I cant even be sure of reality. I responded, Then how do you know youre really here making this statement? Good point, he replied. What point? I asked. The man looked at me, smiled, and said, Maybe I should go home. I stated, Maybe it wont be there. Good point, the man said. What point? I replied.

This man certainly got the message. If there is no God, ultimately, philosophically, how can one talk about reality? How can one even rationally believe that there is such a thing as truth, let alone decide what it is?

How do you know what is right and wrong?

Please explain how and where our DNA came from?

Your faith = what are the chances of a wrist watch that contains 1 billion pieces apart in a box that is shaken will come together and start and keep time ?

The fact that the Bible was written over a period of time by different people under the Holy Spirit and remains perfect is evidence that it is the Word of God.

I will challenge anyone to please point out ANY mistake/contradiction/or any other perceived evidence against the perfection of the Bible.

Friends, we can argue all we likeour minds are the place of argument but our hearts (conscience) that is the place of judgment. Look into your heart, how do you know that lying, steeling, cheating and murder is wrong? How do those who have never heard of the Gospel or Jesus know that these are wrong? Because we were created in the image of God, and He has written His law on our hearts.

David R

 

Well said.

I've found some people through out my short life that, they dont want to believe in God because they dont want the be responsible for their actions to somebody (higher being)
Romans 14:12: So, then, each of us will render an account for himself to God.

or some have lost faith because of something they experience in their life, either through religion or personal experience.

Its always easier to say, I don't believe. To have faith, to read the Bible, to Believe in God, it takes time and a personal effort. You need to study and meditate. Not everybody wants to put that effort, so its easier to say, I don't believe.

 

Interesting discussion so I'll throw in my two cents.

I'm a moderate. After spending a decade living in Asia where the predominant religion is Buddist, I came to think that maybe a different religion isn't necessarily an issue, as long as the outcome is providing guidance for people towards a good set of values and behaviors. They should get a shot at heaven too if they lead a good life and follow their beliefs.

No one really knows what is "true", we only know what we believe/perceive to be true. What you or I believe is true is no more than that. As long as a person is leading a good life with a good set of values, as far as I'm concerned we don't need to believe exactly the same things.

I never had much interest in history when I was a kid. It didn't seem relevant for some reason. That changed when I took a couple trips to Israel on business and took tours of the Holy Land (and a side trip to Egypt to see the pyramids). Suddenly, all the places mentioned in the Bible were real places to me. I saw the spots where Jesus was born, had the last supper, died, and was buried. The wailing wall (remnants of the western wall of Solomon's Temple), and the Dome of the Rock where Mohammad made his journey to heaven, which is within the original area occupied by Solomon's temple and said to be the same spot where Abraham offered to sacrifice his son. It is interesting that the most important historical events in Jewish, Christian, and Islamic religions all happened within a few hundred yards of each other. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

The religions branched out in three directions due to people's perceptions at the time what was true or not true.

Which brings me back to the common denominator for these three. The Old Testament. There are many analogies in the Bible. I don't percieve a conflict between creation and evolution, as long as you don't think it really happened in seven days. The fact that the Bible lays it out as a progressive thing over time, from my point of view only makes them more compatible. Especially since the things created are basically done in the right order. Only difference is it took billions of years, not seven days. I don't have a problem with that.

In summary, I don't think it matters a whole lot what religion people follow, even casually, as long as people live a life of good moral character and respect each other. The Islamics that want to kill people are violating one of the ten commandments they should still believe in from the Old Testament. I don't think it was Mohammad's intent to modify the ten commandments, and suspect he'd be shocked to see what has gone so terribly wrong.

 

Hi Mike, who sets the moral standard for life? What standard are you following, your own?

My friend what you are doing is setting up your own (god) in a subjective post-modern view, that is called idolatry.

My God is objective...that is there are absolutes in this world and a set of God given laws that are written on mankind’s heart. The laws were given not for us to follow and keep earning our way into heaven but to show us our sin and need for a savior who could pay the price of God’s justice.

My God is BIG…the question is not whether the Earth was created in seven days but COULD God have created the Earth in seven 24 hour days?

IF all paths lead to the same place then the only people I know of who are going to be in hell are Hitler, Stalin, and Sadam Hussein ect...the people we all agree that we are "better" than. But would you say that you are better than your neighbor? Nobody is better than anybody else...we all are the same. I am no better than Hiltler, just forgiven. Oh, and I was also born that way because of Adam's sin.

Challenge: I will Pay Pal $20.00 to the first person who can prove to me that they are good.

David R

 

Mike M says:

In summary, I don't think it matters a whole lot what religion people follow, even casually, as long as people live a life of good moral character and respect each other.

That's a dangerous position. Good people do not go to heaven, only saved people will go to heaven. You can try as hard as you want to be good, but you will never make it. It just does not work that way.

In the original Old Testament text the word used for a "day" is a literal 24 hour period. So, yes, the earth was created in seven 24 hour days just like we experience today. In other places the word for day meant a "period of time". So we know that from the original text we are talking about 24hours. It is hard to argue with a language. Let me correct myself. Actually six days of work, one day of rest! Sorry.

 

I got my marshmallows ready for the witch burnings ou:

Lighten up guys and save it for church

 

All is good. My apologies if I have offended anyone. I thought we were having a good discussion? My desire is to speak the truth in love, if I did not care about you guys then I would keep silent let the chips fall where they may.

David R

Nowdoes anybody want to buy my restored triple black 69 GS 400? :3gears:

 

Man always tries to limit what God can do. Jesus said He came to seek and to save the lost,my sheep hear my voice and follow me,no one can come unto me except my Father draw them.When Jesus asked Peter who he thought Jesus was Peter replied that he believed Jesus was "the Christ" and Jesus replied blessed are thou because flesh and blood had not revealed that truth to him.Folks salvation is a work of God and He will save every single person who is "called by his name".It is a true statement that God prevents none from coming to him and it is man's responsibility to come to him yet none will come except God intervines and does a supernatural work upon their heart giving them spiritual life.spiritual eyes,ears. God will save every single one of His elect before this world comes to a end and He has the the capability to perform His will even if that person is in China,USA,or some remote region of the world.He also has choosen the good news of the gospel and the foolishness of preaching combined with his work thur the Holy Spirit to save the lost so believers ought to be going about spreading the gospel.

 

Well said Mike.:gp:

 

LOL Of course the whole concept of God seems silly to you. Do you put yourself on the same plane as God so as to actually understand him? How "could" you understand? Just because you are happy denying the existence of God, does that mean by default he muct not exist? I always find it amusing how when someone's family member gets ill, or everyone around you is dying, when you're sick in the hospital, then people are ready to entertain the "silliness" of God by hypocritically attending church or having prayer said at a funeral. Why bother if they don't believe in the first place? Or, why not test the waters and actually try to look into it further now, before you die?

Why wait?

Do you not hope that there is life after death or are you just happy to call it done when the lights go out? Either way dude, there is an eternity after this place. Your belief has no bearing on its validity.

You ask me for scientific evidence of God and I will say pull up the shades on your eyeballs and look at creation, look into the night sky, look at a single cell of the human body, look at the entire ecosystem? Just a big accident? :error: What was in existence before existence? What was in place before the big bang. You can't create something from nothing. Unless you're God.

Don't bother pointing out all the bad in the world either, that's not God's doing my friend. That is our doing. You are free to live the way you want now. God doesn't hold a gun to anyone's head. Any time you want to talk offline about the validity of God I am all ears.

P.S. You put the God of all creation in the same category as a ghost? ou:

Obviously there are flames coming my way, but I am well prepared.

 

Mike,

Is there any other religion that states that the only road the the only true God is through Jesus Christ and unless one believes in him there is no promise for eternal life? Did any other idol or proclaimed savior come from Heaven to take human form and get stoned, spat on, kicked, beaten and nailed to a cross to pay for the sins of the very people that did that to him, then rise again 3 days later as he said he would prior to that all happening? Was the exact place and time of birth of any other "savior" predicted 800 years earlier by any body as Jesus' was?

You are right that nobody knows for sure what is and isn't true. As you well know, Christianity is entirely based on a person's faith. Without this faith, it is useless. That is why the argument will go on forever. That is why without the faith in these happenings of old and the promises given to us by Jesus one can sit back in his all knowing easy chair with beer in hand and think we are all crazy, but sooner believe an article in TV Guide just because someone, some person, not God, said it was so. People are not willing to put faith in something they cannot have plastered in front of their face. As if looking around at creation is not enough proof. In fact, even back in Jesus' times, while he performed all his miracles, people still did not trust him, so why anything should surprise me now is beyond me.

 

You go boy. What he said.

 

Great points. Actually, it's funny how we try to accept God's work on our terms, rather than His. Not too obnoxious is it? Since our pea brains cannot comprehend the world being created like that, it must not be true. As if anything is impossible to God.

 

people arent perfect thats why we needed God to send his Son Jesus to die for us so that our sins could be forgiven.

By grace are ye saved through faith NOT of WORKS lest any man should boast.

We cant live a perfect life, but Im proud to say that I have a perfect God and I know that Im going to Heaven when I die. The only thing that will get anyone to Heaven is by getting saved by the grace of God. It isnt because we live a good life or because we dont smoke, drink, or curse that will get us there. It is FAITH in God and His Son. I also realize that the Bible says that Faith without works is dead, but that is referring to the Christians....not unbelievers. As Christians, we should do the work that God wants us to do because having faith, but not doing what he wants us to do is a sin. This is what Bush is referring to. That is what he believes is God's will for his life. Im proud that he is sensitive to God's will.

I personally wont even buy a car without consulting with God first. I believe that if I put Him first in my life then everything else will fall into play.....if something bad does happen, I will still praise His name. If I pray about a decision and I do what I feel that God is leading me to do then He blesses it. Believe me, Id be in trouble if I wouldve invested in somethings that I wanted, but knew that it wasnt God's will.

Remember all things work together for good to them that love the lord and are called according to his purpose.

Why am I a Christian? Because I felt the Holy Spirit tugging on my heart (conviction). I knew I was a sinner and I asked Christ to come into my heart and save me. Hes been there ever since. You can talk to God and he does minister to you if you are a born again Christian.

Im not condemning anyone and Im certainly not being hostile, but I just want everyone to know what I believe.

 

you guys are creeping me out.

 

I don't believe in a God like that either; there is a god (little "g") of this world named satan whose only goal is to kill, steal and destroy. Jesus, God manifest in the flesh, said that He came "so that we might have life, and have it more abundantly".

Let's give credit where credit is due.

I say this as gently as possible, but I would encourage you to be careful here. I know for a fact that some of these gentlemen are up by 4:30 am every day so they can pray before going to work; many of these guys have structured plans to give 10% - 15% of their annual income away every year, to charities that they have researched and trust (rather than being shamed into giving).

K

 

Actually, it can be "proven".

Remember the "Dead Sea Scrolls"? That's why they were such a big deal. They were manuscripts, roughly 1000 years older than the previously known ancient texts, which agreed in every respect with the "modern" Hebrew text used to create the King James translation.

Sometime later we should get into a discussion about the rigor and thoroughness that the ancient scribes used when duplicating the original manuscripts. Pretty amazing.

K

 

This thread is getting long :laugh: