Think about this... The hemi didn't dominate drag racing until the Aluminum blocks came online. The 455 Buick design is inherently better for torque, and has been limited by the iron block's inability to consistently handle much over 6 or 700 horsepower. TA has a great deal of knowledge about the 455 and it's weaknesses, and will certainly design them out of their project. The iron block Buicks have been smoking the 454's and hemis since they were introduced, often in stock form with the lackluster Stage 1 head. This project will allow the Stage 2 motors that were envisioned by Buick to finally come to life! Can you imagine what a Stage 2 headed aluminum block 455 will do when the prostockers begin to get their butts whooped? They will go out and get the Buick to be competitive. I have no doubt that the eve of a new figure in ProStock is here. I have no doubt that TA is about to become a very BIG name on the National racing scene. Put in your orders, and let's help them get there!
Wow! With us Buick guys it seems that its either feast or famine! Choice of blocks, choice of heads, intakes, cams. Repo parts by Alan and Mike G and Duane. Hats off to all of them! Geez, what could be next... a Buick on the cover of Car (Chevy) Craft :grin: . Mike Garrison you even got the jump on me:eek2: The TA ad is sent to the printer direct, I just leave the page blank for the printer to add the page. All I heard was the phrase from 2001 Space Odyssey, when Dave asks the computer Al what was happening what's happening, "Something wonderfull" Its gonna be a short winter Rick
Pat Musi will not be quaking in his shoes and Warren Johnson will loose no sleep at night for quite some time. Good news for sure and I don't mean to knock this project, it is wonderful news. But we have no support parts available to compete with either of these guys. In time you may be wright, but it will take a lot of time to find the power in the new blocks that are coming. The stage heads may be very good for the application they have been used in but are light years away from a set of pro stock or pro mod heads. The valves in our heads move on the wrong plane to compete with these other heads. Up until this point the available heads were more than enough to feed the block we were working with. Now the heads will again be the determining factor in power production. I will probably always be buick and will probably never collect a 7 second time slip, I have other priorities that need to be addressed first. As far as pro stock, buick hasn't had a two door car for some time now and would need to build one before anyone could go pro stock racing. Our closest competition was a full second off todays pace for pro stock, after 8 seconds it is like hitting a brick wall and every .001 second comes hard. Look at how long they worked to get from 199 to cross the 200mph barrier. I have a local aquaintence? that has been searching for years to collect a 6 second time slip, I beleive 7.04 is his closest number. His car is a full fiberglass new camaro with g-force pro stock chassis now has 714 inches of aluminum engine with multiple stages of nitrous, cars this fast are art and science not just power. Priorities before gloating, a buick has crossed over 1000 HP only enough times to count on 10 fingers and tomorrow we will cross 2000 HP not quite. Flame me if you want, I am buick through an through but I like to live in reality while on this planet. I have battled the other brands for 15 years on a local level and always did just fine until I ran out of chassis and they got aftermarket blocks. This is a huge step in the buick world and will provide years of buick development to come. In a street application my money would be on iron, track only give me the aluminum.
I think you make some very good points about the difficulties of making competitive numbers, but I think it's interesting to note that Buddy Ingersoll was beating the pants off of Bob Glidden with an iron block 6 banger with puffers. He was working out of a little garage in Illinois with parts that he often had to make for himself. My point is, that if the aluminum block is available, there will be people willing to push it with ingenuity. We have a lot of nifty parts available that Ingersoll had to make for himself, and Mike T. has already shown that he can build a stomping 455. We have roller cams, roller rockers, all kinds of pistons, etc. It will only be a matter of time before the 455 blocks begin to show up at national events, and I think they will surprise the competition. Too, I don't think there's a rule to prevent someone from using their Skyhawk tube car.....I'll be watching anxiously. Dan
I'm interested in the Aluminum block, and all I have to put it in is a Rockcrawler! Of course, money is an issue with me as it is with most of us, I would venture a guess that the market for an Aluminum 455 block would be as large as the cost would allow it to be. Still, I think it's super cool TA is doing it, and I'll support the project if I can afford to BUY one! I suppose they wont be out until next year sometime.....
Old pro stock rule was domestic production 2 door car no more than two years old. Buick has nothing for pro stock at this time. The direction that buick is going in right now I can't imagine a car for pro stock. Ingersol accomplished an amazing feat with his V6 however he was at an advantage that non of the V8 cars was given. Prostock is supposed to be apples to apples and he was running grapefruit, that is the reason he was removed. People will say he was removed because it was a buick, he was removed because he had an unfair advantage. To take any credit away from what he did would be absurd, he did godly things to get where he was. Prostock is my favorite class that shows up on TV on a regular bassis, I would bet my paycheck against yours that they wont let that happen again any time soon. You wont see a V6,a turbo or a foreign car and as sad as it seems no fuel injection. There are other classes for all of this stuff. NHRA is like college football, they don't make the rules to make sense they do it out of tradition. Todays prostock cars don't resemble a stock car in any way shape or form and Ingersol was closer to stock in many ways than all other cars competing but would not fit into NHRA rules. Ingersol is a god to me for what he did, but I will tell you straight up, he had an unfair advantage and that is why he was removed. Disclaimer, all things that travel through my keyboard are opinion, most things in life that become fact started as opinion and progressed into fact over time. There are only a few people that know the facts about things like Ingersol, and they will never tell.
Dennis knows what he talking about when he says that it takes more than a good block to compete with the likes of Muzi or todays Pro-Stock. I go to these events quite often. Even with all the H.D. stuff that Muzi has in his motor, I've never seen him make more than 4 passes without hurting it. I've seen him race at about 10 events and he usually makes at least one engine swap if not two. Here's something I was told at the PRI show. A good 500 c.i. Pro-Stock moter will cost you around $70,000, but the parts only cost about $25,000. The rest of the money is spent on development. I never confirmed these numbers so take if for what it's worth. OK after rereading this post it kinda sounds negative, thats not what I ment. Way to go TA. I will not be buying an aluminum block any time soon, but I'll still try and give my support anyway I can.
Pro Stock Engines....... Not to get too far off topic, but with Pro-Stock being mentioned, here's some interesting reading on what goes into building a P/S Engine. It's several pages long, but quite interesting! http://www.theoldone.com/archive/pro-stock-racing-engine.htm
Reality is overrated. Doesn't Woody Allen live there?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: snort. hoo. I kill me.
Kinda weird no one else has anything to say about the Aluminum 455...... Thought for sure you guys would be behind it.
i support the 455 aluminum block all the way cause when it comes time when im ready to go 455 and take 350 out, ill just go 455 ALL ALUMINUM.....:TU:
Bill, I think there are plenty of people that are stoked about the iron and alu blocks, I all so think that a lot of people are just plain tired of all of the political stuff that goes along with it. Before I go any further, I just order $1200 worth of parts from TA, because carries great products and almost always has what I need, when I need it. If it was not for TA we would not be in the great shape we are today!! Also my stage3 heads are at Jim B's getting the finishing touches, because Jim to the time to call me when I was stationed in Germany to talk over a couple of combinations that I had emailed him about. I also knew that he has the ability (good prices too) to get the flow numbers I need out of these heads. Since Jim has had my heads he has called or emailed me many times always keeping me posted to changes or recommendations, I couldn't ask for better service. But if you recall the way the story broke about Jim B's block, it was not presented with much warmth at all. In fact later in the thread it was said that the market isn't there to support a aftermarket block, therefore it is a lossing prop anyway you look at it. Now, not one but two blocks will be showing at a location near you, and it is the greatest thing in the world. I hope that in the end all parties come out with pockets of green and the die hard racer can can turn 7's in alu or iron:grin: Cory
You're exactly right Dennis. Buicks will not be involved in NHRA Pro Stock unless some MAJOR changes happen. First off, the TA, Burek, or whoever's block is not even legal for NHRA Pro Stock because it doesn't have a GM part number. Secondly, NHRA has already mandated that all GM cars use the DRCE block and heads. And by the way, alot of Pro Stock teams use cast iron blocks. They use the weight on the nose for chassis balance. I just wanted to help put that dog to rest. Now let's enjoy the new blocks when they get here. :bglasses: HMMM, what can I sell to come up with $4000?
Spoke with my engine guy last night.....according to him the BB chevy's are about $1500-$1800 more for the aluminum.......so since we have some time for speculation I would guess these will be $5K+ for the Buick..... I also think there is something that says iron makes more power than aluminum...the benefit of the aluminum seems to be repairability. Given the choice I have to stick w/ the iron. His car runs 7.20's w/ an iron block,should be good enough for my wimpy goal of an 8.80 pass. How long do you all think til we see the aluminum?
Yeah, I find it very interesting that the same people who are all excited about the new TA alum block are the same people who have chastised me for announcing our new block several months ago and have stated that it is not economically feasible to produce a v-8 block for a reasonable price , the market is too small to justify it from a payback standpoint, it is a bad business decision to try to do it, it would have to sell for at least $6000 to even begin to be feasible. Get a life here guys, now that TA is announcing a block project, now all the sudden it is feasible, doable, the best news to hit the Buick crowd ever, etc, etc, etc. Now I guess all of the sudden the market is big enough to undertake such a project? This kind of crap makes me want to puke! Well our project is right on schedule so keep your shirts on. I guess this really is a totally unbiased board!LOL! Jim Burek P.A.E. ENTERPRISES.
Cory : "And the die hard racer can turn 7's in alum or iron". The die hard Buick racer is and has been turning 7's for years now. It doesn't take a new aluminum block or a new cast iron block capable of 600+ cubic inches to go that fast. All it takes is a little old, worn out Stage 2 V6 motor passed down from the Nascar boys.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: The Big Block Buick guys have been twin supercharging, turbocharging, fuel injecting, multiple carburating, blowers, and whatever else they can possibly do and still haven't made it. Why do you think the Super 16 at the Nats is not heads up? Why do you think the V6's have their own S-16? The V6's dominate Buick. Why do you think TA's first aluminum motor was a V6?:laugh: On a serious note, lets hope both JB and TA get their motors successfully out to the Buick market. We need to support both of their efforts so that collectively their products will enhance what we are all here for...RACE BUICKS. PS: If you want to see something really funny, you should have seen Jim Weise try to make a pass in a Grand National his first time. "What the hell do you mean, spool it up"!!!! John Schmidt
