TA Aluminum Intake OR ALuminum Heads(this is for real)

In a heads up race the 350 Buick will never keep up with a 350 chevy. Even if at some point a 350 Buick Al. block with 4" bores were made. The 350 Buick bore centers just make it impossible. However a great 350 Stage 1 and Stage 2 style head could be made with most or all of the same patterns. You just hate milling off a hugh chunk of metal but it might be worth it. We are going to make both ports this month. As far as chevy valves.... Well we are not going to buy any valves from Chevrolet. As far as I am concerned they could fit a VW if you get my drift. I have the greatest respect for Chevy and I drive one of their trucks but if I live to be 100 I will not build or race one!!!!!!!! I am a Buick Man.

 

So any idea on valve alterations on angle placement to perhaps get better cross section and valve unshrouding?

Wedge port? Heart/hemi?

 

With Chevy's aftermarket support, it's amazing that anything at all can keep up with it...

Take a 600 RPM smooth idling Buick vs a one made from Chevy with similar characteristics and see how they fare against each other head to head...

Tear each one down after 100,000 miles and see how each one fared against the other.

They're not even in the same class. Buick's strengths and Chevy's strengths travel down different paths. Pitting the Buick up against a Chevy in Chevy's well established and well supported territory isn't a fair comparison.


Gary

 

I would venture to guess the valve angles would remain the same. Lets just wait a few weeks to see what we can get with what we have. Looking for a pleasant surprise.

 

Actually if you look at what TA did with their Rover head and how they changed the valve angle to fit larger valves,they'll probably use ques from that design with lager ports for the more displacement of the sbb 350?(quessing,but would make sense) TA can actually swap the 2 center cyliners on the Rover head pattern,and vola its a sbb 350 head.

On another note,to see if the stage 2 sbc ex flange idea would work,all that would be needed is a sbb 350 Skylark be next to the same year Chevelle with a sbc(or any other same year Buick and Chevy sister cars) to measure how high the ex is on both,and if a stage 2 design would bring the ex in to be narrow enough to fit the frame rails.(which should,no problem,the height would be the major concern)


The sbb has to fit under basically the same hood height as a sbc,so if the sbb is mounted a little lower than a sbc the ex may already be at the same height(or very close).o No: This is what needs to be investigated to know for sure if it will or will not work.



Derek

 

It's not so much the height or width. Look at the angle of a 455 stage 2 exhaust port. It is not square to the bore angle. The Stage 2 exhaust port is not just the opening shape and size. It has better flow due to the position on the head. You can look into the stage 2 port and see the backside of the valve. Try that on a 350 head.
If you just make the exhaust port round but in the same place as stock 350 it won't gain much, the bend is too severe in the casting.

 

Some pictures:

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?136575-Some-350-head-pics&highlight=

 

I'm sorry that my post wasn't clear,I'm dieing over here with some sort of flu,it hurts to even breath.

Yes I realize that a stage 2 ex port would be pushed back to the center of the engine,that would only help with the width to use a sbc header. The ex port would probably be up 1.00" shorter,giving the sbc header frame rail clearance to fit that way,the main concern in doing this is to know if it would work would be if the sbb stage 2 ex port would be close to the same height(probably within 3/8" either way)of a sbc ex port so the headers would go down far enough below the floor pan of the vehicle it is in.

In my previous post I stated that a sbb 350 may be mounted slightly lower in the same chassis as a sbc because there is basically the same hood clearance in the chevy sister car.(I'm not totally sure about this though,this is what would need to be checked to know if it would work)

To offset less TA header sales,motor mounts for chevy and gmc trucks could be sold to be able to swap in a sbb 350 that would weigh less the 400lbs(probably around 375lbs) with aluminum stage 2 sbb 350 heads of coarse and you don't want to run al heads with a cast iron intake?:Brow:

Yeah,I didn't think a stage 2 could be made by just simply machining the ports down because of the excessive heat in the 2 center ex ports that would need coolant flowing through to not build up to much heat.(wasn't sure though)

Anyway,it looks like there will be time to investigate if this idea would work because the stage 1 heads will have to be made first.


Derek

 

Hope you feel better soon Derek. I caught something earlier this week and I'm struggling to get rid of it myself. I hear there's some nasty bugs being passed around.

 

I agree with Ken. Although I race a dragster, I end up using a lot of non buick parts that T/A doesn't make, but a buick man till the end.

 

Maybe you guy's have computor virus. Sorry, could not resist. Get better soon.

Another issue with attemping to use SBC headers is motor mount and starter clearance issues also fore-aft engine placement. There are also about 100 different Chevy headers. Some may fit, some may not.

I was at the big Detroit swap meet today and was looking at SBC heads and the exhaust port location is more similar to stage 2 than I remembered. By the way I found several sets of SBC heads for under $1000. Still rather have Buick.

 

LOL!! Yeah I must of caught a computer virus!:laugh:ou:

Hundreds(probably more like thousands) of sbc headers available,but zero stage 2 sbb 350 headers out there. If the chevelle ones didn't work in a Skylark,there might be one that might work,if not those would need to be made.

I really like the idea of being able to use an off the shelf turbo kit that would be direct bolt on that are available for many many applications.

Was that swap meet today? Dagnabit!! Did you score any good Buick goodies?

Derek

PS

Thanks Gary.

 

Swap is tomorrow also. I got there about 11 and must have just missed all the Buick parts.

 

Don't think I'll be able to make it,it hurts to breath,even worse with cold air! Is this the Mich. state fairgrounds swap meet eight mile and I-75?

Was there even any Buick parts there?

Derek

 

Let's just get some Awesome heads made the will flow 300 cfm intake with little extra work added and go make some horsepower.

 

State fairgrounds? Where you been man. That's been plowed under for years. Now at Gibralter trade center/flea market in Mt Clemens.

 

Sooo I like the idea of high flowing heads... How much cfm can be added b4 it becomes unstreetable?

 

Oh yeah,I forgot about that,I wish they put the drag strip there like was talked about when the criminal was mayor and shot it down.(I guess he couldn't get a good enough kick back from that idea!)

Yeah,thats how long its been since I've been to a swap meet.ou:



Derek

---------- Post added at 10:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------

Depending on how the engine would be set up,I would say up to 300 cfm or a little more should be no problem to be streetable. The GM LS1 style L-92 retangle port cylinder heads flow over 300 cfm from a factory non-ported heads with not much more cid.

It really depends on what you as an individual would consider streetable,how would you want your car to run? With 300 cfm and the right camming you can have a rock steady idle with very good street manners that could be set up to run on pump gas with 8:1(regular) compression,or as high as 11:1(premium) with a slight lope.(pick your poison!)

I'm hoping for at least 280 cfm out of the box,but 300+ cfm would be a whole lot better!:Brow:

You still have to remember that even though the heads are capable of 300 cfm,if the cam doesn't open the valve in that flow range it won't be flowing 300 cfm into the cylinder. So the builder would be able to customize what kind of power they want to make a whole lot easier than a stock flowing head,because the potenial of high flow would already be there,but would only use what was wanted to achieve a certain power range. A roller cam would be your friend in this situation,with a high lift and a low degrees of duration @ .050" would have a power band in the lower rpm with the extra flow from being able to open and close the valve relatively quick without much strain on the valve train.(Gary would be much better to explain this cam stuff than me though) But I hope this helps.


Derek

 

Thanks!

 

Ken posted in the aluminum nailhead thread that hes going for 325cfm on the 350 heads

I'd imagine this is flow without intake

would be cool to flow 300cfm with matching s/p intake for street

if anyone is interested in what stock ls7 heads flow and how much an intake can lower flow
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iv-internal-engine/438754-stock-ls7-flow-info.html