What to do? 350 engine budget build! $1500 - $2000 Max

:gp: Take note, Steve has been there and done that.

 

Ok a lot of great advice. I see I am going to have to up my budget just a little.

So so I am thinking 350 transmition fully rebuilt $800 torque converter $250 new gears $250 carburetor $385 ta camshaft $185 Pistons $700 and $500 for engine work. I can live without the headers. That comes out to $2600.

now I just have to find places to get all of this done. I think that's a little bit from everybody's suggestions.

Only thing i am I am unsure of is the machine work on the heads and what needs to actually be done. Once again I am not a mechanic and not that technical. Hope this will get me over 300 horses and a nice takeoff

 

I also agree with most suggestions, though stay away from too much in-depth stuff and keep it simple.

With no headers, the Crower level 3 is your best option cam wise.

Getting your compression ratio between 9 and 9.5 is best for your needs here.

Head work is optional, and will net you some more power even with the iron manifolds, but the engine will still make good power with the above two suggestions.

The TH350 trans is your best option cost wise for more 1-2 gear performance (below 100 MPH or so, depending on gearing). This is where most of your fun is going to happen.

A better torque converter will add to the fun, but is not 100% necessary with the above suggested cam.

Adding in a better rear end gear that is still street-friendly will add to this improved gearing effect. Something in the range between 3.73-3.08 would do nicely. You have a Buick 8.2 rear end (if original) on a '68 Skylark, and the options for those are limited. You'd need to get your hands on a GM 8.5 rear for best cost effectiveness.

So there are three main focus points, and an optional fourth: compression, cam, and transmission (and rear end).

The carb choice is best as a rebuilt Qjet as previously mentioned, along with an upgraded distributor (and/or ignition parts) with a better recurve, TA grooved front cam bearing, new oil pump kit with booster plate along with an adjustable oil pressure regulator (and a good gauge to read it), along with other incidental goodies to keep it all together.

Just skimming the surface here, without too much technical jargon or details.

 

$185 pistons?

The correct pistons are Auto tec from Scott Brown.

 

I'm gonna play Debbie downer for just a min, I ASSURE you that whatever totals you come up with for parts and labor will only be the lowest possible number, IE your $2600 will turn into $3500 that's how just how it is. And I wouldn't waste money on a 350 unless you do a full build from the pan up. Otherwise your justing spending money to pick MINIMAL gains. You will still be unimpressed more than likely and then will want to redo and respend. If you want to go the 350 route that's fine , but I would pick up another 350 and build it right, so when put it in and feel an honest to goodness improvement you won't regret the money spent. Or just pick up a BB and the simple mods like shaved heads,cam,pocket porting etc etc will yield a much better driving experience jmo

 

Mummy68,.. Here's what I did,.. its still whipping the street today... Its my son's car,,,

Click on the threads and read them, I tried to keep it a cheap build, but I would say about $2500 total, almost everything was bought second hand...

 

In your budget I would not rebuild the short block I would just toss in a TA212 cam, mill the heads 40 thou and use shorter pushrods, put on a good Q jet and call it a day. Hugger makes a good point, a well done full rebuild is not in your budget in my opinion.

If you do go with a full rebuild then your first step is to tear it down and inspect it, take the block and parts to the machine shop and have them hot tanked or baked in the oven to clean up then all parameters measured so you know if you need to more the block or cut the crank etc. and then start with ordering parts once you know the bore size and bearing size. Taking short cuts on a rebuild will just leave you un-happy in the end. Machine shops have the right equipment to properly measure the engine, trying to do it at home without the right tools or experience is not a good idea.

 

I'm going to have to agree with Debbielaugh here, a planned out build from the ground up will make you much more happy with the results than a piece meal assembly.

If you want to spend the $$ on a sbb then find another one to re-do while you drive around with the one that is in the car running already. Doing it this way you can also look for a 455 if you think that may be an avenue you may want to explore? Who knows you may find a deal on a good running 455 for 1/2 the cost of your original budget it wouldn't hurt to be open to that if one is easily found locally.(finding one not locally can eat up your budget fast for the shipping charges alone though, and would be more of a crap shoot to know what you're buying)

The stroker build I spec'd out for you would be a great foundation for future upgrades and if you sprung the extra $100 or $150 for the overbore you could make it a 370 cid sbb with a .040" overbore with a 3.990" stroke. If the engine you find or the one you have if that is the one you end up using is already .030" over you can skip having it bored because .010" can be removed with a hone no problem. I would recommend having the block sonic tested if you do decide to go for the over bore though, that way if the block you have is good enough you can go to a 3.905" bore another LS bore size that will have good rings available and would yield 383 cid sbb with a 3.990" stroke!!

The rods in the link I posted new cost over $2,000(for sale pennies on the dollar for them slightly used, like for a 90% or more discount!), usually they will only have 1 race on them when they sell them. With only one race on them they have a whole lot of life left in them and perfect for an economical sbb 350 stroker build with the AutoTec pistons. The plan I mapped out for you in my previous post for a stroker is less expensive than building a small block Chevy 383 stroker. The sbc 383 strokers run great! No reason why a sbb 383 stroker wouldn't run better than a sbc 383 stroker that runs factory heads because the factory Buick cast iron heads flow better than most factory sbc heads, except for maybe the sbc factory Vortec heads. But with a little port work even using the smaller valves the Buick heads could surpass the Vortec head's flow.

Good future upgrades would be a set of the new yet to be released TA Performance aluminum heads, roller cam, a 150HP shot of N0S or a turbo kit to stuff 5 psi of boost in to up the HP in the future.


The 455 path if you so chose, you can do a similar stroker build using aftermarket 5.4L Ford connecting rods with the 455 version of the AutoTec pistons to yield 482.113 cid with a 4.350" bore and a 4.055" stroke! Bigger is better! If you're interested in going the 455 economy stroker route I would be happy to fill you in with the details of how to do one of those as well, let me know. GL



Derek

 

Larry I could actually drop in a 455. It sounds like it would be cheaper. I could Get a 455 and a 400 tranny for 700 but my fear is it needs to be rebuilt after sitting for years an I fear how much thAt would cost

 

Chances are the 455 will need work. But you could take the chance. . But if you read Jerrold's post on his build, he got excellent results from his original 350. You know how your 350 runs. That's a choice you need to make. If you choose to stay with the 350 for now I do believe that more compression and the crower will give you the best performance gain without any head work. And the convertor and rear gearing suggested will work well the 350 or 455.
There are plenty of suggestions here to think about.

 

That's not to bad of a price for a core BBB engine to build that comes with a trans. Make sure you get the pulleys and brackets for the engine to make the swap easier.

The same thing can be done with the 455 using the AutoTec pistons, like saving the bore machining costs just having the block honed and so on as described in my previous posts, same engine building 101 principles and procedures. The off the shelf BBB pistons suffer the same shortcomings as the off the shelf sbb pistons have, not enough compression distance leaving them to far down in the hole! With the AutoTec pistons you can order whatever compression distance you want to dial in your compression ratio for the cam you want to use for your combo. The BBB pistons are around the same price as the sbb pistons with rings included as well. Block and crank machining for a sbb or a BBB should be the same. I would recommend that you do the oil mods yourself, everyone has their first time to do these if you build a performance Buick, be it a sbb or a BBB and it looks like its your turn. :shock:

Using the above pistons can save you $$ on pushrods because you won't have to have the deck machined. If you don't have the deck machined you can run the lessor expensive Fel-Pro blue head gaskets that will seal just fine on most engines that are rebuilt unless the deck surface has excessive pitting then the deck machining can't be skipped, but can still be minimized to be able to re-use the same pushrods.

The above mentioned pistons are much lighter than the factory ones and the off the shelf ones as well so re-balancing is a good idea, rebalancing is always a good idea on any new build anyway.

You can re-use the factory rods, recondition with ARP bolts. Don't go overboard on the heads, do your own porting or use unported and don't waste your $$ on getting the bigger valves installed, if possible re-use the valves there. Upgrade to aluminum heads as a future upgrade if and or when you want more power, less expensive to just buy aluminum heads than to pay all the $$ to upgrade heavy factory heads. Deals come up all the time here people selling upgraded to Stage1 standard factory heads for less than it costs to have done yourself. Used aluminum 455 intakes are for sale often in the for sale section here as well.

To recoup your engine core costs you can sell your running 350 and get more $$ for it if you show them it in the car running, so you may be able to get $800 to maybe $1,200 for it as a runner and not just a core?

Keeping cam mild you can keep your rear gearing while gaining off the line acceleration, can't remember what you wrote you're starting with but a 455 will bring the driveline in the car alive. I wouldn't convert to the TH400 unless it was gone through first because you would have to have the driveshaft shortened and the cross member moved back as well as installing the kick down switch, or if it is actually a ST400 then an even different hookup is needed. Just start with the engine swap connected to the trans in the car first to see if its to your liking as is, then upgrade trans later if in it isn't.



Derek

 

Even a bone stock low comp 455 will move that car around quite well, and he wouldn't have to change anything else drive train wise.

Beefing up the 350 is going to be involved and more expensive than finding a running 455 and doing a direct swap over, saying nothing of the transmission and gearing that'll need improving as well.

I can attest from personal experience that the ST300 with highway gearing does quite well when you push big block torque through it (especially in a lighter car), and is enough to put a smile on your face when all you're used to is a low comp stock 350.

OR use some of the money saved and buy a good TH350 if the gearing is still too soft for the liking. Would still come out way cheaper overall.

 

Can use new distributor in 455 as well, just need to buy and install a 455 gear on it. :TU:




Derek

 

Even if a 455 found needed a refresh, it's still way cheaper than building a 350 from the pan up with all kinds of performance goodies.

If the 455 turns over, the oil doesn't have metal in it, and the cylinder walls aren't pitted, odds are high all it'll need is a basic re-hone/re-ring and put new bearings throughout. Even the stock cam would make power when it's a 455 vs 350.

STILL cheaper, and more power. No premium pump gas needed. More torque than the 350 ever dreamed of, and about the same hp as a high comp stock 350.

I'll agree with the others, unless you got the dough to build a performance 350, your limited funds are probably best spent on a low comp 455 (preferably already running when pulled, and not sitting around for years in the weather or something), and you wouldn't have to build it performance wise. Even stock it's going to run circles around that 350 you have now.

 

Who has kidnapped Gary and using his profile to publish anti 350 propaganda!? Ha

 

Haha

Can't argue with the facts. With limited funds and the want/need for more power, you can't dispute more displacement.

I still love the 350

 

If your intention at any time in the future is to pull the engine in order to get more power out of the 350, I'd seriously consider a 455 swap. My reasoning is that ultimately you'll squeeze more power per dollar out of the 455 than the 350.

If you don't intend on replacing or removing the 350, I'd get the following in this order:
1) Carb - Get a Quadrajet. A *real* Quadrajet.

2) Headers - You can research the differences between the Hooker, T/A and Doug's Headers. Used are a good deal if the tubes aren't flat.

3) Transmission - The ST300 has a 1.76:1 first gear. It's a dog out of the hole unless you run a tall rear gear like a 3.70 or a 4.11. Stock, it also has an 1800 stall stock. If you get a TH350 with it's taller 2.52:1 1st gear, add a 2800 stall and use some 3.70 gears, you're going to be like WTF...

3) Rear Gears - If you're going to be running light to light on the street, nothing beats a 3.70 or a 4.11. I wouldn't go anything smaller than a 3.42

4) Cam - I'd do this absolutely last, because the cam's effectiveness is going to be based on everything above. If you have all the above you'll have a lot easier time getting the right camshaft.

Now, if you're going to pull that engine, I'd consider two options:

1) A BBB 455 - There's no replacement for displacement, and you can't really beat the torque output of the 455. There's a slightly wider variety of parts, and a ton of support in the community.

2) A Junkyard LS motor. Even a $200 4.8L LS engine can be tuned to make 450hp on pump gas with the right combination of parts. Even more power if you throw on a turbo.

You could keep driving the car *as is* and save up the cash over time to do a good 455 or LS swap and in the end I think you'd be happier that route. I've been running my car with a Buick 350 since 1989 but the next time the motor comes out, it's getting shelved for one of the two options above, probably the latter.

 

If you prefer light to light performance and long trips or interstate driving is not in the car's future, then gearing is everything, no matter which engine is chosen.

I personally prefer a more modest gearing for a nice balance between the two, with plenty of torque.

I have a personal admiration for the ST300 2 speed transmission because of the positive experiences I had with them. Their crippling weakness is, of course, the 1.765:1 gearing the low detent has, which can be overcome with a lot of torque at lower RPMs, which the Nailheads and BBBs have in abundance. While this weakness is glaringly noticeable at takeoff (especially on weaker engines), it actually becomes a boon at speeds above 20-30 mph, and is much less of a hinderance with a lot of low-mid RPM torque.

Its stock stall is raised considerably when you push big block torque through it, not to mention the converter stays in the torque multiplication range longer.

Coupled with the least amount of parasitic loss of all the transmissions discussed thus far, it makes the engine feel more powerful than it is. It's a tradeoff, and is personal preference.

Pros and cons and all that.

The absolute cheapest way possible (performance wise) is to simply find a good running low comp 455 and swap it in.

All above suggestions from other posters are excellent. There's plenty of options, and is dependent on funds and preference.

 

You said a mouthful there got a ding in your head. lol I have to say you are right about that If I would have put as much money in a 455 as I did the 350 I would be running 11's instead of using nitrous on a 350 to get there, and I would have kept beating the piss out of my friends Camaro with a power adder. I can still beat him with the nitrous and my 12.42 et run and he now has a 383 that is supposed to have 600 hp on tap, but his 12 second and 117 mph does not reflect that.

I did the 350 because I drove around a lot and I knew that I would get better gas mileage with the 350 as with the 455. Plus I was a fan of Sonny Seal's 350 since he was in the 11's at the time. It may not have been the right move at the time but that was 20 years ago and would the 455 still be running today like the 350 does. I have been down that track 500 times plus with this motor and they were not shifted at 5500 either. I still like the 350 though and when the heads come out I hope to get a set and put the intake on and get the solid roller cam.