421 Pontiac vs. Buick dual quad 425

Another cruise night story......ou:

I was talking with a guy that I've known as a friend for a few years, having got to know him at the local cruise nights. Basically, this guy is a Mopar guy, but in the past he had a '63 Pontiac something or other with a 421.

So anyway, tonight we were shooting the bull, and he tells me that back in the day, while he was working in Flint, he and a buddy who had a '65 Wildcat DQ425 agreed to race on route 75 from 100 mph up to whatever and see who's faster. He claims the Pontiac beat the Buick pretty bad and it couldn't catch up to his Pontiac.

I wouldn't know about that, but once I raced an early 60's Bonneville with mine and made him look like he was standing still. :Brow: I don't know what was under his hood, but it wasn't necessary for me to exceed 50 MPH. :laugh:

I think this guy's full of sh!t...........:spank:

 

well with a 3.42 rear my 64 will only go about 130 mph
so starting at 100 i would not have much left.
( start at 0 to 100 it could be another story)
just my 2 cents worth
scott

 

Only 130? When do you really need to do 130? I find acceleration much more entertaining anyway...

But yeah... I'm not suprised you smoked him...I find it REALLY entertaining when I tell people my car is slow... They argue with me ... "Quiet Confidence"..the best thing ever...right behind Buick ofcourse.

 

In 1966, I ran CS/A at CECIL County with my 65 Riv . It was a regular 65 riv 401, 425 cam ,2x4 setup ,3.23 posi and open pipes. It ran 15.0's with 14.90's in cool weather. In the class was a 66 Catalina, 421 hdtp, car ran 14.10's all day with a 4.0's rear and headers.I love my BUICKS but that Ponco RAN!!

 

Hello Bill,

You say you ran at Cecil County in the 60's then you would be the man to ask. I have vintage Drag Race footage of Cecil in the 60's. There was a 1965 Buick Skylark GS that ran, sponsered by Witham Buick. It was Astro Blue with White Roof. Do you have any rememberance of this Buick ??? Oh yeah in answer to this post the Poncho's did run we can't take that away from them. Good Ol' Jim Wangers laid down some legendary ET's with the Big Pontiacs. The fact is that all the Manufacturers made FAST Cars !! But everybody has a preference.

Troy

 

Troy, I remember the 65 GS and I think it ran low 13's and with the 2x4's had a 12 in there . It was a NJ car or lower Pa car. There was a thread on this car either on this board or BPG page about a month ago.

 

I know that if it was a 421 super duty engine it had somewhere around 13:1 compression, it could move those big ponchos very quickly.

Steve

 

Yes I know. I started the thread, I've been hunting that car down or at least looking for people who have knowledge about it's possible whereabouts. As I said I have vintage footage and the car runs twice and puts two different cars on the trailer heading home. This car looked like a clone to Lenny 'Pop' Kennedy's 1965 Buick GS. It was out of Delaware, Witham Buick !

Troy

 

When I first started going to the drag strips in the early 60s I went with a guy that had a dark blue 63 Catalina with a 421. It would outrun any Buick Nailhead I have ever seen with ease.

 

Early 60's Bonneville could have had a 2 barrel 389 or less. Not much to write home about there.

A 63 421 Catalina could be a very bad piece. Would love to have one, would not bet a lot of money racing one!

 

421's rock

When I was 16, I bought a beautiful 65 Catalina Ventura 2+2, 4 speed. I raced it quite a bit and it was very fast to be as big as it was. Very fun to drive.

When I was 20, I bought a 62 SD Catalina 4 speed, factory drag car with the aluminum fenders/bumpers radio delete, etc. It had the M/T cross ram but I stuck the tri power intake on it to drive on the street...
The 62 was geared so low(4:88), I did not drive it much but it was a hoss.

Later on in my early twenties I owned two 67 GTO's and a 69RAIV Judge.

Sorry about the hijack.
Bert

 

I 'll take the 62 SD off your hands regardless of the color.

 

When I was 20, I bought a 62 SD Catalina 4 speed, factory drag car

how many rpm could you turn?

 

Re: 421's rock

I have heard and read about these cars. They're not to be taken for granted. Like mentioned above with the characteristics, these cars caught a lot of Mopar, Chevy, and Ford guys ( and others ) by surprise at the drag strip. I believe a lot of guys were fooled by the size of the car. If it's big it can't be very fast. They were sadly mistaken and humiliated before they even knew what happened. ou: The regular production models were a bit slower though. If you read up on them it's pretty interesting. John.

 

Re: 421's rock

Thanks for the post. Had you kept the car or the cross ram intake (I assume you sold them) you would be sitting on a gold mine...:grin:

Our first Pontiac was a '63 Catalina. It was one of two 421 HO cars, aluminum front fenders, hood and bumpers; essentially a "swiss cheese" car but on a regular frame. Built specifically to run B/S it was known as the "October car" because of it's build date. Nocturne blue, 4 speed, it was the car they developed the Bobcat appearance package on before making it available to the public.

Jim Wangers was involved in a towing accident with his swiss cheese car and there was no aluminum in the warehouse when they went to repair it. As a result they stripped the aluminum off our car and used it to repair Jim's, then scrapped our car when they were done.

That was the one to keep....:ball:

I'll see if I can find some information on how fast it ran.

K

 

62sd

I crashed the 2+2(and I do mean crashed), late one night...

The 62 Catalina, I sold to a fellow from North Carolina, he already had one of the cars and he planned on racing the one he got from me in a Nostalgia/Legends type class. I would recognize his name if I saw it.

It had the alum. bumpers, fenders, hood, fender wells, 421, M/T cross ram, 4spd, finned alum. drums big rear end, radio delete. No power nothing. It was no fun to drive on the street because it was geared so low. Oh, and it was black.
It had less than 11,000 on the odometer, supposedly most if not all the miles were from drag racing...

Bert

 

The Randy Williams Collection (he passed away, hence the sale).

Not just ANY Tempest, but a WAGON...:TU:

 

I did some reading late last night and found that the 421 was sold to the public due to a rule from one of the racing organizations (NHRA) that a car used for racing had to be a "production model." At the top end of the option list, the 421 with a 13:1 compression ratio would move a Catalina at over 116 MPH, running low twelve second quarter miles. Horse power was probably over 450. These weren't "regular" Catalina but special drag versions with lightened frames, etc., that were 300 pounds lighter that a stock Catalina. Eighty-eight engines were built in '63 with 13:1 compression before GM banned all competition. In 1964, the 421s fell in line, more or less, with GM's other big blocks. I think a '64 Catalina and a '64 Wildcat would be pretty evenly matched. The '63 Catalina was a rocket ship on wheels.

 

Come on guys...

PICTURES!!!!! :Brow:

 

1963 Catalina 421 SD