Man I'm all for making improvements , but you are starting with absolute worst base, and I mean that with no disrespect, but you will never get that big car to move out of its own way without a HEALTHY 464+ cid engine, don't waste your money trying you could spend thousands upon thousands on the 350 in that big car and see MAYBE low 15'S , and now they don't "test" for 0-60 but I would be amazed if it hit 60mph before the 1/8mile, but let's say your 1/8 mile mph is 63 and the 1/8 et was a 10.45 then it would be safe to say your 0-60 would be 10secs+/-
http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip/et-street-ss/ Here's what a drag radial looks like, they have about half depth tread and a lot less tread groves than a regular tire. They work ok driving on dry pavement, but can get dicey in the rain. I've done it a fair amount but you have to drive very carefully. It's almost necessary to use at least drag radials once your et gets around low 14 to high 13, mainly for consistency, any change in temp or launch can ruin your runs and make things frustrating. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I took a 4300lb car that ran low 16's stock to a best of 12.6 without shedding weight, it's very rewarding seeing quantifiable gains when modifying a car and testing at the track. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
No disrespect taken I appreciate your response. Its not the worst. It could be an Electra 225. I recently weighed my car and it was 4400lb including me and some gas. Thats not that much more than larrys car or other 11.5 sec cars and I only want less than 14. Are you saying a 350 cannot generate the neccessary 1.21 gigawatts.. uh I mean 325hp at the rear wheels to propel my car down the track under 14 sec? But ultimately the reason I started this thread was to decide if I want to spend the time money and pain on this car since new cars base model jelly beans and trucks are running faster than stock muscle cars of the 60s and 70s. it seems pointless to make the car go as fast as it can only to be humiliated by some totally stock late model robot car or forget going for respectable speed and just enjoy it as a cruiser and accept it as it is.
Gary, remember the biggest reason for owning an older car like our 60's and 70's Buick's is the style. If you don't get your LeSabre into the 14's or even 13's its no big deal. First thing people see is an older car and say "nice car" I've never had anybody ask me "whats it do in the quarter?"
Exactly, no you will not get close with a 350 so just enjoy the car for what it is a luxury cruiser......spending gobs of money to just get embarrassed by a stock pickup truck is only going to leave you very bitter I promise and when talking about moving something from point A to B 300lbs is A HUGE difference especially when working with a small block , there is no TQ there to begin with and before the "350 Police" come in say otherwise they do not make any TQ if you believe they do , you need to ride in a 11 sec 455 car...
Everyone should take their car down the track at least once. I want Gary to do so to get him grounded in reality. I'd also be interested to know what he actually observes at the track when it comes to the late model jellybeans running the numbers. For some reason, he thinks track performance should be the same as street performance, and what's the purpose of having a 13, 12, or 11 second car if you can't use it the same way on the street. Any car that can run that fast, will go sideways trying to launch on the street from a dead stop, or possibly from a roll. Cars running on the track will have sticky tires, and the track surface will be prepped with traction compound. As anyone who has tried to drive home from the track with the drag radials they just used at the track knows, they will pick up every stone, twig, and leaf you run over. To get them to work on the street, you have to heat them up, and they get sticky, very sticky. Running the number, WITH OUR CARS, means not just making the power at the rear wheels, but getting the car to 60'. That means getting your combination right, cam, converter, and gearing, all working together to maximize your track performance, all to run the number. When you do that, you give up some street performance, because the car will over power the tires on the street, and the cam, converter, and gearing make the car less drive able in regular stop and go city driving. Rougher idle, less low end right off idle, richer exhaust smell, and less fuel economy. It's a trade off. The newer cars that you may see running the numbers at the track, may do so because they make more power, with better technology, and get it to the ground way more efficiently, so while they may not 60' that great, they run the number anyway, with brute HP. That is especially true for forced induction cars. With modern technology, you can have your cake and eat it to, and with traction and stability control, you can get comparable performance on the street. That kind of performance can put you and others in extreme danger, especially if you are inexperienced and stupid, like young, newer drivers, with these super cars can be. Gary, go to the track and run your car, even if you do it only once. Observe whatever modern cars you see, and talk to the owners. I say it again, it will give you some sorely needed perspective.
I agree with pretty much all the responses on this thread, even though many may seem to be at odds with each other. You should definitely run your car down the strip at least once, I think everybody should. It's a great experience, and you get to see what your car will actually do. It's more than a bit disheartening when you think your car is fast, only to find out it actually runs 17.5 in the quarter, but then you can accept that as what it is, and try to make the most out of what you have. Dropping a half second is a pretty big deal, and the faster you go, the harder any improvement is. But, dropping a half second off a 17 or 18 second car can be as simple as taking off the air cleaner and cranking up your timing.....Do I think you should try to make your car into a street/strip car? No, even though it can be done, it'll be much more cost effective to buy another vehicle and start with something that was closer to that goal from the factory (as stated, a big block Skylark or whatever other brand in a similar size or smaller like a Camaro, Mustang, Barracuda, etc.) and keep your car as the comfortable cruiser that it is. The cheapest, easiest way to low 12s is to buy a clapped out Vega, throw a crate 350 hp small block in it, put a 150 hp shot of nitrous on it, and some slicks. It'll be cheaper to have two separate cars with different purposes in the long run, believe me (you can read my car list I own in my signature and you'll get why I say this). There's nothing wrong with optimizing what you have though, and if you can get it to run as good as it can for what it is, there's a great deal of self satisfaction there. Also, as stated, don't believe the times you see posted in magazines for what cars actually run in the real world. Those quarter mile times are "corrected", as in, they run the car that day, and then use a math formula to figure out what the car would run in perfect conditions (usually sea level, 29.92 in-Hg barometric pressure, on a 60 degree day). Those cars are also driven by "professional" drivers. The average schmo is not going to run those numbers, and no matter how good the average guy is, the track conditions are usually far from ideal, so to get to the times in magazines is about impossible. Go and see what they actually run. As I said in an earlier post, I've driven many of the new "10 second" cars in real life (I run the service department at a Chevy/Cadillac dealer), and they'll mostly run in the 11s with a good pilot at the wheel in real life. After you run your car, you may find that you have the itch to start racing for real. It's that addictive and that much fun. Enjoy it and enjoy the experience, and let us know how it goes for you
I did the same with the Dragtime app to correct my times to perfect conditions. Notice the DA, Density Altitude calculated from barometric pressure, temperature, and humidity.
Wow, you are pretty close, Larry. Just a couple of tenths off. The track I used to run the Mustang at had a DA usually of about 3800 ft, actual was 3400 and some change. What's the actual altitude of the track you run at? I remember back in high school, my buddy's mom had a Ford Escort 4 door family car. According to Motor Trend, it would run 16.8 in the quarter. My Mustang had a shot 351 Cleveland 2 barrel, an FMX automatic (heavy, inefficient crap trans for all you non-Ford guys) and 3.00 gear. It'd run a real 17.2 at the time. Well, of course he thought the Escort was going to be faster and told everyone as much. So, we put a $10 bill on it, I gave him a 3 second head start, and I still blew his doors off......
Once a year, the Northeast GS/GN club along with The Mid Atlantic Grand national Association and The Tri State GS Club, put on the Buick East Coast Nationals at Cecil County Dragway in Northeast, MD. I have been driving my GS down there and back for many years, and I usually run it down the track on Friday test and tune. The chart I posted is for the 4 times in the last 5 years that I have run the car there. That is with the motor built for me by Jim Weise. Before that, I ran in the mid to low 12's with a different short block and the same aluminum heads I use today. The track elevation at Cecil is 325' above sea level. the best year was in 2014 when the DA was actually negative in the morning. The last year I ran, the DA was particularly bad for Cecil. I had gone to a new fixed pitch torque converter and transmission from the switch pitch I had been using. I knew the converter picked me up some, but the conditions were not good, so it wasn't reflected in the numbers.
I'm surprised so many here think that magazine and manufacturer numbers are so hard to achieve. Maybe you live in hot or high climates but here in NC it's pretty easy to match or beat the quoted times of new cars with a half decent driver. Most magazines don't test on actual drag strips that have been prepped so you likely get better traction at a real drag strip. Most editors are editors first, drivers second so there is nothing special there.
Also, microprocessor controlled fuel injection and timing adapts to the conditions no matter how bad or good they are. What is the elevation of the tracks you race at, and what are the temperatures?
I agree with you Grum.Man, especially with automatics......turn the launch control on and floor it, a moron can pull it off. Manuals are a different animal. But as you said, up here, it's a way different story. We're usually a second or so slower than we ought to be, new car or not. Turbos are a different story, they'll only slow down a few tenths usually.
Yes, that's comparable to Cecil County Dragway on a good day. We used to hold the event in October and it was usually in the 50's in the morning. the DA would typically be negative, and the cars would fly. We have held it in September for the last 5 years at least, and the conditions have typically not been as good.
That's funny:TU: I still meet guys at cruise ins that insist their cars are capable of magazine times bone stock, yet they admit they have never been anywhere near a track.:laugh:
I think the rampant exaggerated magazine 1/4 times were a lot worse back in the 80s and 90s. I've had quite a few 5.0 Mustangs, and my first one was a stone stock 5 speed that ran pretty well, would burn out as far as you wanted, and even barked into 3rd. According to all the articles back then, it should've run 14.0-15.0. I took it to the track, and with me speed shifting (I consider myself a fairly decent gear banger), it would do 16.3. Needless to say, I was pretty disappointed. By the end of the day, I had bumped the timing up 4 degrees, removed the air filter and air silencer from the fenderwell, and got my launches down better. It ended up doing a best of 15.6 that day (eventually a low 13 second car with a switch to 3.73 rear instead of the stock 2.73, exhaust, headers, throttle body, shifter, and some home porting). I would have sworn it was dang close to 13s when I first got it as a stocker, boy was that an eye opener.
Yes, even if a car is capable of running a certain number, that doesn't mean anyone can run that number. You still have to hook the car, and in your case, power shift it without missing a gear, plus, if there is any deficiency in the fuel system, or tune, it rears it's ugly head and there goes the run. This is especially true for the cars we build. The track is a real eye opener. With the new cars, the PCM does it's thing, even launches you.
