OK everybody,Does anyone have any info,pictures and detailed infor on installing a SP1 on a 455? I am about to replace my B4B with the SP1 and I want to do it right the first time. There is so much diversity on the different sealers,silicones,valley pan gaskets what works and what doesn't. I will be using TA's soft 2 piece gaskets in the .060 thickness,I know I have to trim the stock valley pan gasket to cover the underside of the intake and to over lap the new gasket on the edges of the trimmed pan gasket. I'm just not sure about what gets rtc and what doesn't.I'll be using the permatex black in lieu of the front and rear rubber gaskets and that's about as far as I know,can anybody show[pictures]or explain it in simple to follow steps? Thanx in advance:TU: Kenny
Kenny, here's what I did with my SP-1: First use an aluminum shield to prevent excessive amounts of oil getting sucked up into the PVC valve. For sealing I used Edelbrock Gasgachinch gasket sealer around the ports and black RTV (high temp) around the water passages and front and back rails.
Craig is right on. The belly pan he has looks like the AM&P job that I have. A very nice piece. Gasgacinch around the ports, rtv around the coolant passages, then a nice thick bead on both end rails all the way from end to end - getting it into the corners. The belly pan is $35 I think. Well worth the wait for a day or 2. AM&P 270-729-5556. TA has one but I believe you have to drill and tap the bottom of the manifold to attach it. I like just dropping it over the end rails with a thin layer of rtv under it and the bead over the top as mentioned before.
What gaskets are you guys using?, I didn't care for the last set of TA composite gaskets, way to thin in between the intake ports. I'm thinking of trying the new felpro composite intake gaskets. That AMP pan looks pretty good I think I'll have to get one of those:Brow:
Kenney, you don't need much silicone under the shield as it will settle to the rails but you will need a decent bead large enough to fill the gap between the shield and intake. I suggest mocking the assemble up to check this dry, prior to applying silicone.
Kenny, give me a call when you are gonna do it, ill come give you a hand. i've done intakes on my car 3 times. i got it down prety good. or if you just want a hand placing the intake on lemme know. Dan
Thanks for all the advice guys. Yardley, is the pan your talking about the same as trimming the stock valley pan? I know not to use the end gaskets,just a bead of RTV. Do I use the gasgacinch and use the RTV on both sides of the gasket? It's been awhile since I did an intake,and I've always used the valley pans. I just want to do it right the first time. Hey Danny when I'm ready to do it I'll give you a call OK?:TU:
Here's a better look at the shield from AM&P, this is the one I'm referring to above with the installation procedures (not the stock valley pan). I would use the AM&P shield and composite intake gaskets of the appropriate thickness, TA is a good source here.
I gasgacinch the ports on both the head and intake. You want a good seal there, for sure. TA has various thicknesses of composite intake gaskets. They are a nice piece. Just order thicker ones. GANG- if you have a problem with a TA product, just call them and talk with them and discuss it with them (it is a better idea to talk with them first - they can recommend the right part up front and avoid a problem). TA can usually offer a correction to whatever problem you've encountered.
AAAHHHHHHHHHH.... Guys throwing out that Beautiful, block rail overlaping, dowl pin and rubber peg postioned end seal to replace it with a big gooey bead of silicone... AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I don't think I will be able to sleep tonight... Another "urban legend".. Silcone is better than the factory seal.. true with the crappy little cork seals on a Chev motor.. Good thing I don't build Chevs... I know you guys are doing this, and for some of you it's working... (as long as the silicone does not end up in the oil pump pickup.. and you can sleep at night with a .210 bead of silicone on your intakes.. But, let me offer a counterpoint.. This is the way we do it.. First off, if the block or heads had the decks machined, we cut the end rails of the block to maintain a .190 - .200 gap. The factory seal is .210, from sealing bead to sealing surface. This requires a mock up of the block at the machine shop, with the finished deck height on the block, the finished heads. This comes of course after we cut the intake flange of the heads to accomidate the .060 TA gasket (which will hold the manifold up on an uncut setup.. you may be able to get away with the .032's) Here is a pic of that machining mockup, on a board member's motor, being build here. Shield stuff will be in the next post..
Then.... We put a shield on the bottom of the intake to do just what it needs to do, without interferring with anything else. Now at first, I thought we could get away with epoxying the pads that the front of the shield sits on to the manifold, but after seeing one of the ones I did come loose, I spent the $1200 for an aluminum spool gun for my mig/tig welder, and now we weld them on. The shield is the same (with minor mods) for all aftermarket Aluminum BBB intakes. Here is the shield, installed..
The point of this rant? Not to sell intake sheilds, that's for sure.. I will put these on guys intakes, if they send them to me, or have the ability/access to weld the pads on, but it's certainly not a product whose sales will effect TSP's bottom line in any great way.. The point is this.. If you guys saw the amounts of silicone I find in places it should not be, when I take apart the "silicone wonders" at the shop here, you would think twice about doing anything that would require you to ditch the factory end seals. And.. if your going that route anyway, regardless of what I say, then at least do yourself a favor, and go to your local Napa, and pick up a can of the best type of gasket maker on the market now. It's call "The Right Stuff". It will adhere to itself and the iron/aluminum much better than silicone. It will set you back a bit in price ($18-20 can) but then again.. how much does a rebuild cost, if you plug the pickup screen, open the bypass, and get the crap into the pump, and the engine.. (don't laugh, I have seen it before..) And the other thing is to express a point of view, in relation to doing things.. I understand the purpose of some products out there on the market now. Often times, ease of installation is put before function. Never is that the better alternative. And to dispell the notion that any type of sealer is better than the beautiful end seals that Denny and the guys designed for us 30+ years ago. That "throw the end seal away" thinking comes directly from the Chevy boys, who have nothing more than a crappy little piece of cork, just laying on the block rail. We have a very good seal design.. Use it if you can. If everything fits right, all you need is a little sealer (Hi-Tac, gaska-sinch or aviation sealer, around the water and intake ports, and a tiny bit of Ultra black at the corners. That's it... Here is an example of a silicone wonder.. yes, it's and extreme example, but I see this more than you would believe.. I loved the silicone frost plug.. I found about a cup of silicone balls in the oil pan on this one.. JW
After that explanation... and I thought changing my intake would be easy! Nah, just kidding... I know that is getting into welding the shield ... somewhere. I'm not a very experienced engine builder, but this topic has actually helped a lot, thanks.
Jim, Thank-You for your your advice on the intake installation. If my block and heads were milled,but NOT the end rails could I still use the stock rubber end seals? I value your knowledge and will do what you say.Is there a source for the rubber end seals besides buying the whole intake gasket set? I'll be going by NAPA today to pick up the Right Stuff gasket maker[$15.99]. Thanks again for helping me do it right:TU:
If the block and heads have been cut just to clean then up, you will get away with using the end seals. The easy way to tell is to simply lay the new seals on the block, with the intake gaskets, and then just set the intake on, and see if it touches the gaskets on the sides. Or measure the gap with a caliper.. you want .190-.200 with the intake gaskets in place. IF your close, you can trim the sealing bead on the top of the end rail gasket with and exacto knife, to get a good fit. Then just use a tiny bead of that gasket maker to insure a perfect seal. TA has the end rail seals available individually.. no part number, just call Dave or Mike and ask for them. JW
OK after ordering the the splash pan from AM&P we also discussed what size gasket I going to use I told him I got the .062 from TA and I was'nt sure about the milling on my heads or block, but they had been milled he suggested I get the .030's to make sure. Don't you know it they were the better fit.I did not use the stock rubber end seals, just a nice thin line of the RightStuff that Jim recommended. I did do some gasket fine tuning and used new intake bolts from TA. Ive been plannining this swap for 2 weeks and did it today,Car fired right up I let it run for 1/2 an hour while I made sure there was'nt any leaks adj. idle etc. good oil pressure and temp. I just have to play around with the spacers I'm using. I've got 3 mopar 3/8 composite gaskets[thermoquad] and it's a little to much height. I'm confident I can make it fit under the hood with some of the drop base filter housings I have. I also have to do some fab's on the carb.linkadge. All together it was very satisfying day with all the help and knowledge of everybody here who gives thier advice. Thanks everyone:TU:
I didnt realize there was a source for the end seals... I too wont use anything else and have on occassion saved them when pulling an intake LOL. Then throw them out later. I havent looked into this really and for the first time in over ten years have JUST started a teardown of a BBB but can this be approached like the V6? Cut an old stock style gasket? Like this: Shawn
Just for info, I installed my intake yesterday using the AMP shield and the factory end seals instead of RTV, I had to take off the top rib on the end seals with a razor knife but beyond that it fitup right on the money (using .030" gaskets). My heads and block have only been milled enough to true them up. Had I seen JW's pemanently installed sheild first I probably would have gone that way though.
