The first CERTIFIED 11 second pure stock car!

p Looks like Joel redlighted on this one.
Peter

 

OOOps Joel .... you may wanna wait a bit to post test - n - tune results ..... ou:

 

No oops happened. :moonu:

I said in my post that it was a test and tune, I did not claim that it was going into the PSMCDR record book.
Still, Jim's car is the first certified car to go into the 11's with the seals still on the motor. That is a spectacular accomplishment, Jim deserves the accolades! :TU:

 

I agree super :TU:

 

It is a great accomplishment, Joel.

Hats off to Jim for getting there...his car is impressive


and so is JJ's, and so is Pete's, and so is Wayne's........

 

Can someone edumacate me? :laugh:

We all know that right out of the show room that the 440 six pack (or any other muscle car for the most part) never ran an 11.98, so how do you do it and keep it completely stock and not just "stock appearing"?

If this question sounds stupid, too bad :error: , I really want to know.

Thanks :TU:

 

And there it is .....The $64,000 question....

 

Can't tell from your post whether you're asking an honest question, stirring the pot or simply being facecious. So I'll post with all three in mind...

F.A.S.T. ≠ NHRA Stock ≠ Pure Stock ≠ Certified Stock ≠ L.A.M.E. ("Like A Manufactured Example")

This has been debated ad nauseum on other threads. The short answer is that the definition determines the rules that apply to permitted deviations from L.A.M.E. No one ever said Certified Stock is L.A.M.E. (Sorry, I couldn't resist the acronym!)

 

this just keeps getting worse, because according to that, my car is 30 over LAME....

 

Questions ??????

Hi Guys!! Have a question maybe you can help we with. It's out of ignorance rather than dought. I'm honestly trying to think of ANY 100% pure stock production car from the sixties to the early seventies that you could drive off the showroom floor and crank off 11's with? And I can't think of one. I absolutely applaud the effort and hard work that went in to this car to make it run it's times. That's great!!! But was it 100% pure stock down to the casting flash on the exhaust manifolds? No extrude honing? Cam has stock lift with nonstock duration charactaristics? Is there something nonstock that is permitted in certified pure stock class that I don't know about. I'm not trying to be disrespectful or rain on anyone's hard work, just don't see a pure stock production car from the sixties to seventies era, with absolutely no modifications turning 11's. Help me, is there something I'm missing? Thanks !!! John o No:

 

:laugh: Donny, me too!

 

John, it's all in the attention to details.

Balancing is allowed, tighter tolerances are accepted, and these cars so recieve a much higher level of tuning than they did the first time during assembly.......

non-stock items allowed are 2 1/2 inch exhaust upgrade

msd box, hidden (mainly allowed due to the rev limiters on expensive motors)

K&N air filters

any gear ratio

.....................

the heads are not allowed to be ground on at all, no lightweight engine or transmission parts.

 

Also...
Overbores up to .070 over, heads milled to achieve NHRA Legal CC limit's,
and up to .015 extra stroke(NHRA Variance) for regrind's/indexing,etc.
So with all these items, you can end up with quite a bit more compression
than what the engine left the factory with, or was rated at new. Alot of
engines gain a full point in compression, some more, some less.
Alot are zero decked or close which makes quench(power)
Like Donny said, it's all the little things added up.
I'm sure no 6pak car ran 11's new, but Jim's does, or at least has the
potential to, under the right condtion's.
Jimmy's Vette and Pete's Camaro have run in the 11's also following these
rules and guideline's, I'm sure niether of those would have dipped into the 11's
when new either, but that was then, this is now.

Firestone Wide Ovals/Goodyear Polyglas GT's didn't hook back then the way
they do today being molded from modern compound polymer's/rubber.
I'm sure these car's couldn't lay down the 60 ft times back in the day on a
nappy track, today's track compounds are stickier too.
Kind of like comparing 60's machine work and engine building tolerances and
technology to that of today, HUGE difference, no comparison.

 

LOL :laugh:

Edit: I'm "assuming" you are not serious. o No:

Oops. ou: Sorry, I see now that you are totally serious.

Someone posted earlier that they didn't know if I was being funny or not asking about how you can get 11's from certified stock. I see now that some modifications can be made. It looks like there is almost an invisible line between Certified Stock and FAST.

I'm naiive on all this stuff, I'm just asking because I want to know the rules.

 

nah, there is a big diffence because anything goes under the valve covers in FAST.

roller cams, roller rockers, stroking, aluminum anything, titanium tidbits........the Pure Stockers are still running solid cams with stamped rockers of stock ratio. the NHRA guidelines are used, but the Cert Cars for the most part have been milder that the razor edge of those rules.


here is a great read about the certified cars

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=68090

 

Thanks for the info. Tom and Donny. Maybe I'm a stickler but these cars use the stock components. However....the stock components, heads, block, have been modified. ( not to mention an ign.box. ) IE: they didn't come straight from the factory that way. Don't they have a class for this already? FAST Class? The way I understood certified pure stock was no stock components were to be altered or have any deviation from original. Maybe I'm wrong or there has been a change in the rules. Perhaps old musclecars cars that run stock and turn 14s and 13s aren't that exciting or don't draw the crowds that modified cars do. Maybe it's a $$$$ thing. I don't know. I appreciate the insight though. :TU: John.

 

It's much more complicated than perhaps you're making it seem. No matter what the rules are for a given class, there will always be someone (actually, a few) pushing the envelope. I think it's also important to consider that beyond the rules there lies the "spirit" of the event. Most P/S players abide by the latter and, as Donny put it, their cars do not max out the permitted tolerances. First and foremost, it is a sportsman's event. It has never been about $$$!

As for ignition boxes, time and again many guys have learned that aftermarket ignitions/boxes do not make the cars run faster than a good points system. The reason these appeared was for their rev. limiting capabilities.

The P/S event was never designed to measure showroom cars against each other. It was created by two guys that had a simpler vision of what "stock" cars should look like. The event grew from the simple premise that it wasn't fun to run against cars with headers, slicks, lumpy cams and open exhaust. The P/S event is not trying to determine which brand truly was the fastest ever (although it might be argued that some participants may have that on their personal agenda). It's about running the best you can with your particular car. The rules simply try to capture as best they can the original intent of the organizers.

Outside observers who critique the results based only on period magazine articles are really missing the lion's share of what goes on here. (... and John, this last comment is not directed at you personally -- your post seems thoughtfully presented).

 

Both classes are extremely fun
F.A.S.T.......look stock and have mucho engine mods
Pure Stock...look stock and have some engine mods

It will never be 1969 again and as mentioned lotsa parts and conditions are better now, and also some people are out to show "their" car wasn't a stone or "their" car was fastest. Therefore....you will see never see ET's from 1969 again.
Like most of the people though, me included its a good time.

 

It would also be virtually impossible to have a muscle car still in untouched condition as it left the assembly line 35 years ago. Engines wear, get blown up, factory parts are no longer available, etc., so the "pure stock" class is reasonably close. "Pure" is technically a misnomer. I think that too many people take the word literally. Of course, the allowed modifications and tuning of these cars make them faster than they were when they first came out.

 

Mine was totally untouched when we first ran it in 1999. I bought it new and still had the factory exhaust and brakes on it. Only changes were tires (borrowed a set of radials), belts, hoses, and battery. Car was not driven much since 1973 as it had 50k on it then (summers only since new) and ony 64k on it now. Ran a 14.20 something at 96, I think. Then it broke the driveshaft and bellhousing like the 69 W30 Chesrown car.