How do you ensure the Genie is back in the bottle? From what is known now it's difficult to even ensure that the Genie is out of the bottle. That's why I say no new rules enforce what's there. Seems the least disruptive and I think it will address a lot of folks concerns.
"Some folks think this is a grey area." Yeah,but is it? and how would you know if anyone has NHRA TRICK LIFTERS.You think the powers that be wanna check everybodys lifters? They are still a hydraulic lifter that has plunger travel.So what? I'd bet in a pure stock engine they are a waste of money anyway.Not sure they would be worth anything, but I guess I didn't dyno the motor either.
Throw away comment: No one really cares if you're cheating and running 13's or 14's. It's when the faster cars are breaking new ground with unheard-of-before performance that cheating becomes a topic of heated discussion. The problem: that stuff affects the reputation of the entire event (even the guys trying to be honest).
So if you don't know what you are doing and or have a bad combo you can cheat your ass off, but if you are at the top of the food chain and do know the deal you better be legal so all the little fish who are cheating can enjoy a good reputation? So basicly the cheaters are calling the legal guys cheaters to make themselves look better?And the cheaters get to decide what should be legal for the Big Fish? So if a guy with a 15.5 car cheats his way to 14.5 he is less of a cheater or not a cheater at all compared to the 12.5 car that goes 11.5? This is where things go wrong.The rules need to be the same for eveyone. What the hell is that? You sure about that Dude?
Speaking as an outside observer, I don't agree at all. I would put money down on any certified car being much closer to stock than most non-certified cars, even if the certified car has tweaked the build to take advantage of NHRA specs. Underlying desire to be all-inclusive??? Hardly. For every one of you participants, there's probably a hundred guys like me out there who can't participate because our car is not Pure enough and we don't want to change it to fit the rules. That's not a complaint, just a statement of fact.
Is that why in the FAST class that no -one checks parts #'s untill you go quicker than 11.70????? They actually post you can run any head you want untill you go 11.70. Petero No:
Tom, you have it all backwards, RDL said the rules need to apply to all the fish, not just the big fish. If a guy is running 13s and cheating, he needs to go home and correct his car, same as anyone else. the certification was so guys running well with ANY combo could prove their cars were legal, and pressure was applied to Casey, Tim, Pete, Jim, Jimmy, Benoit, et al to certify because they ran so well, but then the rumors of bogus parts passing certification kinda broke that process and cast a shadow on all the certified cars.
Pete,I think the jist of that rule was, when it was written at 11.70 you were in striking distance of acually winning something.As you know Fast runs a Quick 8 ladder and you can't really have a guy with the wrong parts take something from a guy with the right parts. Alot different than... "No one really cares if you're cheating and running 13's or 14's. It's when the faster cars are breaking new ground with unheard-of-before performance that cheating becomes a topic of heated discussion. The problem: that stuff affects the reputation of the entire event (even the guys trying to be honest)." What the back of the pack says about a 10.30 or 10.40 has nothing to do with anything.Certainly not anybodys reputation.
Donny has me quoted correctly. Brian has said it more simply in just enforce the existing rules. I would like to see the rules made even tighter (just my preference, not advocating that it's the right thing to do... but I believe it is doable). My point about no one caring about cars running 13's and 14's is based on the fact that this thread wasn't started because someone discovered that a certified 14.2 second car had an illegal lifter. If that were the case, I just don't think there'd be a 3 page thread about it. As for reputation, I wasn't talking about any one person's reputation; I was referring to the fact that the P/S reputation has become a joke (someone elses quote there) because of loose rules and unheard-of-to-date performance. Humbly, I think that affects all participants on some level.
Sounds like Major League Baseballs Steroid era. 11 second Pure stock cars/70 plus home run seasons Hmmmmmmmou:
get another hobby Some of you guys need another hobby,i can tell winter has set in because you guys whine more than the starter in my Dart.As long as nobody sandbags your running door to door with someone,do you care if your BB is running a SB as long as its a good close race who cares.Pure stock will never be PURE STOCK again,ive been running since 98 and always built my cars to PS specs then lately were aloud to build to NHRA spec,so with my latest car thats what i did and im NOT spending more money to slow it down to please a few old ladies that want to whine,be thankful Bob&Dan have put on this race and shut your pie holes. love kirk
Out of curiosity why are S-M lifters preceived as a evil thing? They are basicly a regular hydraulic lifter with the bottom ground off and a ceramic puck stuck on.They still have plunger travel,while it is limited. No special machine work is required,they just drop right in.So what is the big stink about? While they are lighter,they are only a smidge lighter.The best thing about them is they can be used on multiple camshafts without worry of wiping out a lobe and having to go back through the motor to pick all the metal out of the piston skirts. Granted you can run more spring pressure with them.I can only see that as a good thing.With the rare parts some are running it would be stupid to let things bounce around.That can cost far more than a set of 720 dollar lifters. I can't imagine anyone "needing" a set in pure stock.If you have ever seen a stock eliminator camshaft you would understand why those guys would "need" them.If you can picture a square lobe in your head that is what they are.The "lift'em and leav'em" camshaft is choice in NHRA stock eliminator.I can't see anyone using one of those cams with exhaust manifolds, car just wouldn't run right. While this little 340 I'm putting together has regular lifters I wish I did buy good lifters for this engine.Scared to death of a hydro cam.All my other stuff is roller so I never worry about hurting the cam. I'm not making a push for the legality of them I just wonder why so many think they are voodoo.
Another one of those things "that does nothing":laugh: Let's see, they have limited travel for more lift, they're lighter, and like you said, "I can't imagine anyone "needing" them in Pure Stock", I can't either, unless they need them:Smarty:
Re: get another hobby Last time I got out of my rocking chair to check, that was called "bracket racing." love rob. PS. ... mind if we have a look at the lifter in that 14.2 car of yours?:grin:
