Best starter for BBB with shorty headers?

Not sure what you're looking at but that starter is a reman PG250 unit. That "total piece of crap" has been cranking a 600HP 455 for over a decade now, and has been cranking a 900HP build in my 9-second GSX for quite some time now too. I have had better luck with reman starters in my shop than new. New is mostly Chinese junk. To each is own. I'm glad the bolt issue has been brought to light.

 

I had a Lt4 starter on my turbo 6 it's a Hitachi style maybe? But it's basically the same style as the Powermaster starters. Has the bat and heavy wire there on the outside super easy to get to

 

Larry,

Was the Rock Auto starter a PG250 or PG260 style starter?

 

Not a PG unit at all,look how the solenoid mounts with the housing surrounding part of the base.It's the first gen PMGR.Glad it's working for you but I personally would never use one.There is a chance the PG is what they sold you but the picture for 246-5111 is the POS.
https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/RSE2465111/RSE2465111

Larry,Rob stopped making the Buick starter years ago due to drive problems,then redesigned it using a Ford PMGR.How long ago did you get it?

 

What a can of worms.

Anyone have a P/N for the short bolt?

 

Look in the link I provided.

 

Jamie,

I never said the 246-5111 was a new starter. I would never use a new starter -- I have found them to be overpriced and 100% Chinesium, Delco or not. The 246-5111 is not a marine starter. It is a PG250 for 94-early 96 LT1 engines. Post a picture of what you believe to be a PG250 starter with a part number.

Here is a PG 250:

https://www.amazon.com/World-Power-Systems-9000773-starter/dp/B00OBTQT2E#

Here is another one:

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-323-480-Starter-Motor/dp/B000QGPNQY#

Cross those numbers into Napa's system. First, the 246-5111:

http://www.napaprolink.com/resultsmi.aspx?Ntt=323-480&Ntk=Interchange Number&Nty=1&N=0&SearchType=3

Second, the 323-480 (same result):

http://www.napaprolink.com/resultsmi.aspx?Ntt=323-480&Ntk=Interchange Number&Nty=1&N=0&SearchType=3

Click on the 246-5111 (note the PG250 designation and click on the buyer's guide on the bottom for the applications):

http://www.napaprolink.com/detailmi.aspx?R=RSE2465111_0203785236

Napa's 246-5115 is a rebuilt PG260.

Larry,

Your Rock Auto starter is a PG260-style.

Having been in the auto service industry for 30 years, I prefer the PG250-style only because I remember seeing more failures of the PG260's. We used to pop the end plate off to inspect them and it was a real train wreck in there. There is more to go wrong in a PG260 than a PG250 but on paper the 260 was supposed to be a better starter. Don't get it wet lol!

Guys, when choosing a starter, remember that the good old days of things being made in the U.S. are long gone. Both new Delco's and new Napa's are made in China, and likely every other new replacement starter for those applications. You can't get away from it. I have seen more problems with new rotating electrical products in the last 10 years than reman, at least from Napa anyway.

Also remember that where you buy if from should offer good, quick, hassle-free service after the sale in case it takes a dump. Amazon? Not sure how that would work or what kind of a pain any type of mail-order starter warranty issues would be. Who pays shipping, etc. Maybe a local brick-n-mortar has the advantage here.

 

For some reason, the first 2 Napa links aren't working at the moment. They only showed all of the Napa starters that the Delco's crossed to. I reloaded them and it didn't change. Maybe they will come back?

 

The starter in the link is a PG260, judging by the photo.
PG260 has external bolts going through lugs welded to the side of the motor. Other GM mini-starters have internal bolts, or bolts that go directly through the end-cap.
PG250 has the heavy cable from the solenoid entering the motor at the end. PG260 has the cable from the solenoid entering the motor farther in from the end.

There are more potential models than just the PG250 and PG260. GM has multiple designs of mini-starters which are application-specific.

Delco has never been good at providing comparative info about model numbers. They like to deal in part numbers for the consumer and the repair tech. Even then, they provide the "long" GM number, the AC-Delco number, the Remy number, and with Delco and Remy, the number may be different depending on whether it's new or rebuilt. Don't get me started on aftermarket rebuilds, or--even worse--brand-new Aftermarket knock-offs of the PG260 (imported directly from the Most Hateful Nation on Earth, and maybe advertised on eBay using the WRONG stock photo) I spent a bunch of time researching mini-starters when the starter drive on my OEM 10MT (re-named SD300) croaked on my K1500; what I found was that the PG250 was not well-liked, the PG260 had a better reputation. I found charts comparing "horsepower" and amperage draw, none of which I bookmarked or saved, but which seemed to favor the PG260. My application was for the large-flywheel Chevy engine, whereas the Buick uses the same starter as the small-flywheel Chevy application. The PG260 comes in both styles. In the end, I bought a Delco (or Remy) rebuilt that was a direct replacement for the starter originally supplied on large-flywheel Chevy applications such as the 8.1L Vortec truck engine. I figure if it's OEM-approved to spin an 8.1L, my ol' 5.7 will be just fine.

Here's what made the difference for me: Remy (which used to be Delco-Remy before GM went ape-sh!t selling off divisions and re-naming everything in sight including major corporate divisions) is clearly and obviously pushing the PG260 as the conversion mini-starter of choice.

Again, all the info including solenoid options and bolt lengths/thread pitch is in the link I provided way back in post #19

 

Ah - I missed that. Thanks.

Here's a couple pics of the NAPA 246-5111 for those interested:

 

With egg on my face I for some reason saw and/or thought SD instead of PG.Hell I even typed it myself.Reading back on a different day,I catch my mistake.I apologize for the confusion I caused.I claim a mix of dyslexia & dementia,it seems to be getting harder to remember things than it used to.From now on,I will have to carefully think out what I plan to type & review it another time before posting.

YES,there is an early PMGR starter that has a steel 1 piece combination planetary/gear/shaft/track assembly that will rust to hell when it gets wet,then drys out.That NAPA unit looks suspiciously like it.

The new OEM Delco mini starters are NOT Chinese.They were from Mexico until last year,now they are from S Korea.If I were to source a unit for my car it would be OEM if at all possible.

Sadly my vendor post full of all this info with pictures was taken down when I terminated my advertising on the board.I asked Mike Bucy to lock the thread with 20+ pages of nothing but starter info derived over 20 years of posting, but it seems he opted not to do that.

 

If you still have that info, I'd love to receive it via PM or e-mail.

I'd be willing to host it on my web site so that you could link to it.

Let me know what you think.

 

On the bolt issue I just used a couple of hardened parallel ground washers and the stock bolts. Over a year of regular driving no issues as of yet

 

Like I said,it vanished via Mike Bucy who runs the vendor section.I had no control over it.It was done over a 20 year period from when I first joined the board,with input from others as well.A goldmine of starter info in one thread.

Now as far as the PG250 & 260 are concerned,they have different torque ratings represented by the KW designation.Basically high & low torque.This is the one I used to sell,which is 1.6KW.The NAPA seems to be 1.4 and being a rebuilt hardly guarantees the rebuilder didn't use Chinese parts.p On top of that,there is a lowly PG200 and an array of letter designations on top of the number series for the minis & most places have no problem interchanging the units.However on our cars that have real compression,points & carburetors that don't start as efficiently the smaller units would be less than desirable.

 

That's a shame.

External bolts through welded-on lugs on the side of the motor. Heavy cable from solenoid to near the end of the motor, but not at the extreme end.

To me, that's a PG260. Looks like what I installed on my K1500--except mine was for the big-flywheel application, so the drive end housing used two long bolts instead of a long and a short..

 

This starter, that was designed for a SBC hybrid the LT1, bolts up to and properly spins a BBB? The gear tooth count, direction of rotation, works with a BBB?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Buick SB and BB, and Chevy with small flywheel, take the same starter motor. (Cadillac, too...maybe. I forget. Maybe Cadillac, and Chevy with big flywheel.)

Buick Nailhead is an oddball--unless it interchanges with something I don't know about.

Pontiac, and Oldsmobile gasoline (except Toronado) take the same starter motor. Olds Diesel is an oddball.

Olds Toronado and Cadillac ElDorado take the same starter motor.

All GM V-8 passenger car engines use starter motors that spin the same direction. Some marine engines turn the opposite direction, but the starter motor may--or may not--spin the same "common" direction because the starter may be mounted behind the flywheel, drive-end forward.

There can be some differences in starter motors in terms of bolt holes that accept block-to-starter braces, or heat shields...but the basic design is compatible.

The typical "old" V-8 engines used a 7-tooth starter drive gear that meshed with the flywheel. The Olds Diesel (but not the Olds gasoline engines) uses an 8-tooth starter drive.

Some of these mini-starters have an 11-tooth drive, but the overall starter design makes the 11-tooth drive compatible with the typical Chevy/Buick flywheel.

God bless GM's parts interchangability and commonality.