Dennis That is a great question. I am in the same boat. I love beating up on the guys with all the electronics.
GSM rules I don't have a head liner in my car now. Would this keep me from getting into the class? Other than that It is all there. Mike Gilbert
462, you need to take that up with the GSM Rules Committee. Please post your request on that forum. Jim
Those payouts are HUGE for any event, especially for a newer club's first big event! Got to LOVE a club that really gives back to the racers! Thumbs up to all of you!!! :TU: PS- We are working on making the payouts even bigger for those running our parts & winning and/or runner ups! Details coming soon!
Super-8, Q-16, Pro and Super Pro Classes Ladies and Gents, After reading all the posts and getting questions e-mailed to me and to Jim Haas regarding the rules on the Super Pro and Pro, Super 8 and Quick 16 classes, and the Buy Back (Duck) Class. I felt it necessary to put in an updated and final posting on these classes in order to eliminate any confusion. The following will supersede anything previously discussed or written regarding these classes. Super 8 Class: Full tree bracket style. The quickest qualifying cars get in. Only rules are that vehicles MUST be full bodied Buick cars powered by Buick engines. And of course all IHRA Rules will apply (see the rule book for IHRA Rules). Quick 16 Class: Full tree bracket style. Starting from the 9th quickest qualifying time at the event (ex: #8 Buick in Super-8 say is an 8.50 car) so the 9th position would be the next slower Buick which would be #1 qualifier in the Q-16 Class. So this all basically means the 26 quickest qualifying Buicks at the event will take the spots for the Super-8 and Q-16 Classes. Only rules regarding the Q-16 are that vehicles MUST be Buick bodied cars powered by Buick engines. IHRA rules apply. Super Pro Class: Full tree bracket style. Starting from the bump of the Q-16 (same procedure as explained above). Vehicles MUST be EITHER Buick bodied OR Buick powered engines OR both Buick powered and Buick bodied. (YOU CANNOT HAVE A CHEVY CAMARO WITH A CHEVY ENGINE ETC.) You can have a Camaro powered by a Buick 455 or turbo V6 engine or a Buick car powered by a Chevy engine. All non-bodied vehicles, dragsters, t-buckets, etc MUST be powered by a Buick engine. And of course IHRA rules apply. That's it! Pro Class: SAME AS SUPER PRO CLASS EXCEPT NO ELECTRONICS (DELAY BOXES) YOUR CARS WILL BE CHECKED IT MUST BE DISCONNECTED. The Second Chance - Duck Class: Full tree bracket style. All first round losers in ALL RACE CLASSES can re-enter and race in this class for a small fee. It is sort of a Gambler's Race for all first round losers that want to enter. Rules???NONE!! Except for IHRA rules regarding your particular et. Now the 6 million dollar question. What is the cut-off between the Super Pro Class and the Pro Class. First off you all have to realize being this is the first time for this event it is difficult for us to tell just how many cars will be attending. Our priority is NOT to have one class with a zillion cars and another with a few. It will be hot and there is little shade, I do not want to be tied and dragged behind a Buick by some 150 irate hot racers waiting hours in the staging lanes to race. We have discussed this a length and have come to a TENTATIVE cut-off between the two classes. IHRA has 11.49 as the rollbar cutoff, so we are going to use 11.49 as the cut-off between Super Pro and Pro. Remember now I said tentative. It is not written in stone. NOW HOLD ON please don't get into any hissy fits yet :shock: :laugh: Most likely by Friday we will have a good idea of a car count for Sunday's race schedule. Let's say FOR EXAMPLE the Q-16 bump is a 10.20. That would make the Super Pro Class a 10.21 through 11.49. Now if we have only 40 cars in the Super Pro Class and the Pro Class from 11.50 and slower has 150 cars...well you can see there will be a major problem of participant getting pissed off, and rightly so. This is why I said tentatively, because even though it is now a rule, this rule can be subject to change based only for the benefit of all the participants. The bottom line is we would like both the Super Pro and Pro Classes to be approximately the same size. If by best accounts we have a ton of cars in both classes, then for next year's event we will look into adding another Bracket Class. One last note: Yes you can enter more than one class if you qualify, BUT you must abide by the rules pertaining to each class entered. So if a car qualified for Super Pro (with a delay box) wants to run Pro, he/she must disconnect the box in order to run in the Pro Class. Now I hope I didn't confuse the poop out of everyone or put you to sleep, it's just that we would like to set things straight and explain it as simple as possible. Thanks for your time, best of luck and please have a safe trip out to Salem.
Thanks for the reply Rick. Unfortunately I am now confused. I would like to run 2 classes super pro and pro or quick 16 and pro or super pro. If I don't qualify for quick 16 I will be too fast for the break given for pro. Are the splits just guidelines for the pro and super pro or do you have to run the class you fit into? I know a lot of cars that are too fast for pro but don't use electronics, where do these fit? Seams easier to me to just split by electronics and no electronics but I do understand that racing a 9 second car against a 17 second car is not fun.
Hi Dennis, I think your confusing yourself, because you want to race two classes. My suggestion is, pick what's best for you in ONE class, and just do your best in that playground. If you still insist on running two classes, you will have to buy another tech card, and pay for another class anyways. One class entry fee, doesn't entitle you to multiple classes. Those cars ending up in Q16 or S8 that didn't pay for those classes initially, will have to anty up in the staging lanes before first round begins anyways, or they won't be allowed to run in those classes, and alternates will move up accordingly. Jim
Dennis As with running too fast for Pro but don't use electronics, well I'm in that boat along with John Csordas Jr, Doug Hecker, Rob Chilenski, John Massoud, Rick Miller, Greg Gessler and I know there are a bunch of others. We are all gunning for the Q-16, but if the bump is in the 9.30-40's you'll have some company in the Super Pro Class :Brow: as some of us won't make it. As with the delay box it never bothered me much, I suppose someday I'll have to buy one...maybe. If you feel unsure if you will qualify for the Q-16 and want to run Super Pro and Pro. What I would do is first buy your Super Pro tech card. Once qualifying starts you can get an idea on the Q-16 bump. If you make it then buy a Q-16 tech card (and keep your Super Pro card and run your two classes, Q16 and Super Pro). If you don't make the Q-16 Class, just walk over to the gate and buy a tech card for the Pro class (and keep your Super Pro card)and run the Super Pro and Pro Classes. And if you are running way to fast for the Pro Class, you'll just have to lift or I guess it may be time for a throttle stop. But either way the box has to be disconnected if you run in the Pro Class.
I am not confusing myself. I would not think that one entry fee would get me into 2 classes, I do this all the time at local tracks I just buy entry cards for both classes. Most local tracks are overlapping classes to fit faster cars that run without a box and slower cars that run a box. I don't plan to ever use a delay box and don't scare easily, I run against them all the time. Thanks for the help Rick.
Ok my 2 cents, my thought on keeping the classes even would be this, Super Pro 11.49 and quicker Pro 1 11.99 and quicker Pro 2 12.00 and slower If somebody is running electronics chances are they running quicker than 11.49, so you won't have to worry about a 12.00 car not being able to run Super Pro. The majority of cars will not have any electronics, and should be split into 2 classes. Rob
Another question, If you are pre-registered to race on Sunday, what is the cost to buy a tech card to run 2 classes on Sunday? Rob
Rick, Jim, BPG, You might want to consider what the NHRA does every weekend across the country. For the NHRA ET Bracket Series there is a 2 second overlap between Pro and Super Pro. In other words you have to be able to run 11.99 or quicker for Super Pro, but you can run as quick as 10.00 and run in Pro. This gives any racers in that 2 second window the choice as to weather they want to run a delay box or not. I wouldn't want to be "forced" to run with the box cars because my cars to fast nor would I want to be "forced" to unhook my box and run in Pro because my car is to slow. Either way I'll find a way to race. I'll be going to Jegs tonight after work to pick up the slicks they're holding for me. May have to pick up a few other things as well. Don't know if a few weeks are enough time to change my race program to running a box but I might try. By the way, last week at our local track 93 cars staged for 1st round in Super Pro and there were 52 five-O lights. Once you get past a round or two anything over a .510 is considered bad. Just more to consider, not a flame, my panties are riding just right .
Rob, the published registration/gate information on the BPG website, states that those classes are $70 each, so if you want to run both classes for the Sat-Sun weekend, then it's $140 total. If you pay the first $70 on Saturday for one of the two classes, and then decide on Sunday to run an additional class, it's another $70 upgrade. If you sign up for Super Pro, and qualify for S16, then you would pay a S16 upgrade fee of an additional $30. I hope this answers your questions. thanx, Jim
Shayne, I raced NHRA ET Series for 15 straight years, our cars were track Champions and Division 2 Champions several times. Super Pro was ALWAYS faster than Pro, classwise, I have all the trophies, and NHRA documentation. I understand your point, and what you stated backs up mine. It's just easier to have an ET cutoff between the classes, and just spell out where boxes are allowed, or not allowed. Not trying to start an argument here. We ARE racing at an IHRA track. IHRA has had an 11.49 cutoff for roll bars for years, NHRA now has the same basic cutoff. Kind of a race-car/street car cutoff. If we have a S16 and the cutoff at Salem is 9.50, then we have to have an *on the spot* class for 9.51 to 9.99, then another class for 10.00 to 11.99, then 12.00 and up, if we do it your way. To sum it up, the BPG Super Pro class ET this year will start at #25 on the list (S8 throughQ16), and go on to 11.49. Delay boxes in S-Pro at Salem are OPTIONAL, not mandatory. In NHRA Super Pro, delay boxes are OPTIONAL, not mandatory. Delay boxes are NOT allowed in Pro at Salem. If you don't want to race with delay box cars, then you would race in Pro. If you run 11.20's now without a delay box, you still have 2 choices of classes to run in. You have 3 options, you can easily slow your car to 11.50 and run Pro w/o a box, or leave it alone and run whatever ET in S-Pro w/o a box, or add a delay box and run whatever in S-Pro. For those running 2 classes, you WILL get a different car number for each class. Ex; 7676 SP or 6767 P. Once we get through the first year, and see what the ACTUAL attendance spread is, it will help our decisions for 2005. Hope this answers your question. Jim
That did not answer it Jim, It will cost me $70.00 for the entire weekend per the BPG website, to run time trials on Sat and race in "one" class on Sunday, so shouldn't be only an extra $35.00 to race in 2 classes on Sunday. Included in the $70.00 for the "Weekend Pass" also is my entrance thru the gate, so Sunday I have already paid to get in so I would think at the most is should cost would be an additional $35.00 to "RACE" another class on Sunday.
Rob, plain and simple, if you expect the BPG to pay you 100% of a weekend class payout, for a class entered, then you are expected to pay 100% of the weekend class entry fee. Why should the BPG pay you 100% win payout, if you win, for a 50% entry fee, is that fair to everyone else that paid the full weekend rate?? We are not pro-rating any payouts, so we can't pro-rate the entry fee's. Sorry. Jim
Jim, Up here in Division 3 there has always been that 2 second overlap for Super Pro and Pro. But you are right Super Pro has alway had all the quick cars. Very rarely is there an 11 second car in Super Pro, although it does happen. In Pro, however, there are always quite a few cars (15 or so) running in the 10's. Here are the divisions that we run. Regular Divisions: Super Pro (1/4 Mile) 0-11.99 with Delay Box (Under 7.50 Advanced ET License Required) Pro (1/4 Mile) 10.00-13.99, No Delay Box. Trans Brake and Two-Step OK Sportsman (1/4 Mile) 13.00 & Slower. No Electronics; footbrake only, slicks OK. Your also right about the box being optional and it should be no problem at all slowing my car down. Quaker dragway is just a little slow, plus a short shift or two should do the trick. Like I said I'll find a way to race and I can also state that I'll have plenty of fun. I'm very much looking forward to this event. thanks
Jim, Aren't the eliminations on Sunday? So that would be what the payout is for? Isn't the $70.00 for the weekend pass, (x) amount for the entrance and (x) amount for the class or tech card? So since $70.00 is paid for 1 entrance and 1 tech card on Sat and 1 entrance and 1 tech card on Sunday, then I would think that you only need to purchase 1 extra tech card for Sunday which would go toward the payout. Please believe me, i am not trying to "scam" anything, just trying to understand. Thanks Rob.
