Now ya got it Rob, :beer that extra tech card, for the extra class you choose to play in, is the additional extrafull $70 class rate. Shayne, thanx, see ya soon. JH
Not yet Jim, sorry. $70.00 is for 2 days not 70 for sat and 70 for sun, which if i do the math that is $35 for each day. What am i missing Then I will leave this alone. Sorry about being a pain in the :moonu: Rob
Rob, to hopefully sum it up. :grin: we do NOT have any pro rated fee's, nor is it stated on the published Event Registration form. The bracket class fee's shown are for EACH class for the ENTIRE weekend. The days are spelled out. There are NO daily, weekend rates. If a racer comes in on Sunday only, and we have several doing that already, they pay/paid the full weekend class fee without issue. JH
The ET break is not good. It gives an unfair advantage to those who run boxes. Not all the people attending are regular racers and to put them against people who run boxes will eliminate them without a chance. The only thing that makes sense is to run it box/no-box. Quaker runs it basically this way in their regular program. I run there and run against 8 second altereds in Pro class. If you are worried about too much disparity between the ET's, then run a street tire class for the slower cars. Why penalize a car that runs 10's or 11's if the guy likes to foot brake. Either that or make it an all no-box event other than the Super 8/Quick 16 programs.
Sorry, maybe I should clarify myself when we referred to the electronics we are referring to the delay box. Everyone please listen up, we are starting to beat a dead horse here. This as we all know is a first time event so we do not have the crystal ball telling us of car counts and bump spots. We have to guestimate using information from meets such as the GS Nats, Norwalk Buick Day, Buick Performance Weekend, and the Cecil County Meet. IF we had 100% pre-registered cars we could better determine things...but we don't. Now If we go and have 6 or 7 or a ton of individual race classes to suit "everyones particular needs" we would have about 10 cars a class and the payouts would be a joke as the total payouts has to be split among the classes. We have previously discussed classes at length over a year ago and from that input along with past events we HAD to make a determination. We had people saying they wanted a Street Tire Class, a Nailhead Class, Stock heads up class, Modified Heads up Class, etc. We basically told them to guarantee (that's pre-paid) minimum 10 cars for a particular class and will will open a class, but as you can see there are no specialty classes as the guaranteed count was not met by any one group of racers. Box or no box I have to disagree with the comment that a no box car doesn't stand a chance, that is wrong, I have seen numerous times of non-box cars winning in elimination regarding the faster cars. Now let's be practical, how much does it cost to build a low 10 second engine and the price of getting the car in race form? A lot! So thinking if someone invests a lot of cash in their car, and that someone goes racing as much as possible, the cost of a box would not even come to question. I know there are exceptions to the rule some guys can do all their own work, but being practical most do not. Bottom line is we had researched things and came to the conclusion only 2 bracket classes are needed for the first year out, Super Pro and Pro. Like I mentioned before if we pull a ton of cars then next year we will add classes. But as of now WE DON'T KNOW. So we elected to pick the 11.49 as the bump between the two. And like I said it is a tentative number based on what shows up at the event. Now if you look at the slower cars running 12, 13, 14's and up which may make up the bulk of the cars, is it fair to them we let the delay box in that class, then you will have a turkey shoot as most of these slower racers are novices. So by eliminating the box gives them a fighting chance. As with the faster Super Pro Class. Well if you are spending thousands on thousands of dollars on your engine and car then why not spend a few hundred more and buy the box if you are that serious of a weekend bracket racer. I have spent in excess of 12k on my engine alone yet I haven't felt I need a box so I didn't get one. If I race more often I may change on that, but for now I don't, and live with my decision. Yet I am for the rule of using the box in the Super Pro Class, it's not fair to me but it's fair to the majority of racers in that class. So on closing, like I said previously the classes and rules are set. The ONLY POSSIBLE change may be the bump, predicated on the car count. As for next year? Everything is up for possible change for improvement, but let us all get through with this year's event first. This event is everyones event we are aware that we cannot please everyone, God knows how much we try, but it is not possible so we have to zero in on what the majority wants. For next year set up some poles regarding rule changes, get involved on helping out. We have been discussing the the race rules for a long time now taking suggestions, idea etc. The bottom line is what the majority wants, and this discussion now though good is mute as the rules for the 2004 event have been set. For 2005 event, we are open for suggestion...only after the 2004 event is completed. Now like Rob said...I'm now going to have a nice cold Corona. Thanks again for all your input. Whether you agree with us or not it is still constructive and good input that we will keep it all in mind if future changes (2005 event) are needed.
Rick, My T runs 11:teens/twenties. I can run against box cars or I can dial down and sandbag in Pro class (talk about a turkey shoot.) I do just fine in either scenario. It seems more equitable for those who don't race every week-end like I do to separate box from no box cars. There really is an advantage in having a delay box. The advantage is being able to adjust the car to your own reaction. A good foot braker (5.00 to 5.10) can hold their own in Super Pro but how many racers coming have that much seat time to stay in that range? I guess mixing street cars with slick tire Pro cars can be a considerable disadvantage as well. I know you guys have been faced with a real challenge to meet everyone's expecations. There has to be a line drawn and rules set. Just wish it could have been one small step further to separate the box cars from the foot brakers and the street tire cars from the slick tire Pro cars. No matter...it will be good fun. Leanne
Well Said, Rick. I really think there are some people that are taking this stuff WAY too seriously! This event isn't about "How can I possibly win my class?" It's about getting together and having fun. I've won a few Q-16 programs along the way, but in all the years I've been doing this, I never took it that seriously as to sweat it when the rules didn't favor me. If you are more interested in only doing big-time serious racing, maybe this isn't the event you want to come to. Like John Schmidt said months ago: "This event is all about having fun!" Some of my buddies race every weekend in Super Pro at Englishtown and they treat it as a second job. Last November I went down there and, without a delay box, I went five rounds and put some of them on the trailer. So much for the almighty box! I run a trans-brake, but (so far) I've got no use for a delay box. The driver still has to let go of the button on time, with or without the box! Most of the opinions I've read here so far have one thing in common....the individuals wanted rules that favor themselves and their favorite type of classes. Nice Try! Like Rick said, we'll see if changes need to be made for next year. This year, it is what it is! Try and take it easy and have some fun. Now I need a beer, too!:beer
Gamblers race One Question from me: If there is enough interest, what are the chances of having a gamblers race on thursday and friday? I know on the schedule that it says it is a test and tune days. Thanks
Everyone of you missed the point. It is not whether you run a box or not. It's the ET break rule. Why have a an ET break? Why not just run it straight box/no box. And yes, it is all about having fun. That's why I think that the ET break is not needed. Let the box guys run the box guys and the no box run no box. If I was treating this like a paycheck I'd starve to death. But level the playing field. Let us play where we want. If a no box person feels they can compete in the box class, let them, but to make a no box person run the box people just because of how fast his car is isn't equitable. I agree you need to limit the number of classes to make the payouts good. Doug. no one is trying to make the rules to favor them. But to say a box doesn't give you an advantage is not true. Your first reaction is always your best. Why do you think people like to run boxes in the first place. Now I need 2 beers!!!
Steve, do you think it would be fair to run my car or your car against a 14 second GS guy who comes out to race maybe twice a year? Since it's not feasible to have a whole bunch of brackets for street cars, race cars w/box, race cars w/o box, etc...why would it be more fair (is more fair correct English?) to put all no-box cars in one class? The 14 second guy isn't gonna have a clue whether I can catch him, because I'm so far back as he gets downtrack. I'll know for the last couple hundred feet if I've got him or not. I'd say that's just as much of a turkey shoot. Either way, without breaking it down into several classes, someone is going to feel it's not fair. Judging by what I've seen, you and Leeanne can hold your own (and then some) against box cars, moreso than the average twice-a-year guy could against me or you. I just believe that the no-box racers like you, me, Rick, John Jr., John Massoud, et al , stand a better chance against the box racers like the Zeruchas, Paines, et al , than the "twice yearly" racer stands against us. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there are some "twice yearly" racers out there who want a chance to whip my a$$ out on the track at Quaker. I hope you realize I come in peace and I mean you no harm! :TU:
Doug, I really wasn't asking this for myself. I run Pro no matter what. ET or electronics. I guess I asked in response to Shaynes question. Do I feel it may be a turkey shoot? Possibly in both classes. That's why I threw out the street tire class for discussion. I was hoping it would allow those twice a year 14-17 second guys to have some fun without getting hammered first round. That's all - no more. Peace brother Buick! Keep the lines open.
forget the delay box, the footbrakers will get eaten up by the 4 wheel line lock-2 steps or trans brake cars also personally I liked the race classes the GSCA runs every race is almost a heads up race[nice for the spectators] my 2 cents is run a NO Electronics and Electronics class no matter what your ET is o No:
No GSP class at these event It seems like these class is going by the waste side There was only 4 cars in the class at the GS Nats these year. I want to go to the BPG Nats next year but if there is not going to be a GSP or GS OUTLAW class you will not see me . If there is not going to be a class like that next year at the GS Nats i will not be there as well What happen to these class??????????????????????????????o No:
Hi Larry, I have a quick question.. when have you ever participated in any past GSP functions at the Nat's, or elsewhere? Carr count is everything right? Jim
Larry, As stated for the BPG Nationals, there will be a GS Modified Class, no GSP Class or GS Outlaw Class. As you can see there will be a Super 8 and Quick 16 Class each one having $1500 to win, $750 for RU and the Q-16 also paying $250 into the 1/4's! Not to mention money paid out in the other race classes, totaling about $13,000! That's a pretty damn good payout considering this "new" club started off with NOTHING but volunteers. Now like we stated in this thread and threads months prior, along in the Buildsheet and the BPG site, if you want a specialty class that is NOT listed you had to guarantee at least 10 pre-paid cars for that class. We had a lot of talkers, but no one stepped to the plate with 10 participants, maybe next year. Otherwise having only 4 cars in a class is a shame and a waste and is just not going to happen. I can agree with you on it being a shame that the GSP class is phased out, but again with only 4 cars at the GS Nats (which is a well known National Meet) should tell you that this class is done. Reality bites, yep I agree! Now if you decide to stay at home and not attend the BPG meet or the GS Nationals or any other meet that doesn't have a GSP Class, well what can I say, your going to miss a great event at Salem, Ohio. Hope you change your mind and attend/participate. Otherwise, "Have a nice day, I'm going racing!" Oh and by the way the Northeast GS/GN Club just donated $250 to the BPG Nationals. John Csordas, Director of the NE GS/GN Club asked the BPG Board to split the "Best ET" at the event into two seperate classes by adding another $250 that being for the Fastest V6 and Fastest V8, of course both classes must be Buick powered. With each one winning $250. Thanks John, and thanks to the NE GS/GN Club for stepping up!:TU:
Just the waterbox guys 2 cents........ Our normal saturday program at Quaker City Raceway is 0-11.99 for Super Pro and 9.00-13.99 for Pro-----12.00 and slower for street and 11.50 and slower for street legal. Our rules also go like this 13.99 or faster you may be asked to get a snell 90 approved helmet-----------11.49 and faster you will be asked to get a SFI approved fire jacket and should have a roll bar installed. I dont want to confuse people but this is how we run our regular program on saturdays and it works well... As for a racer who races 2 times a year versus a racer who is a regular its all about where you line up in the staging lanes if you see a decked out car then you may want to stay away from him if you are new to the sport. I dont think you should separate classes because of inexperience I have to work everyday the track is open I cant race at all but I can still average a .530 or better light without a problem. And the chances are its gonna be a pretty leveled out playing field and hey if you lose go test and tune. Justin
Racing Jim I know that Qualifing for GSM, TSM, and TSO is on friday at 5:30. What eliminiations will be taking place on saturday night under the lights? Will it be for those classes only, or anything else? Thanks
Kinda wondering the same as Denny. Is there a schedule of events for each day or have I just overlooked it? Will there be any eliminations on Saturday other than specialty classes? Or are we running 3 days of T&T with eliminations on Sunday. I know a lot of this is still up in the air based on turn out. Any gamblers races any of the 3 days?
I think the main thing we want to avoid is having the classes lopsided, that is say 30 cars in Super Pro running for $1000 vs 150 cars in Pro running for $800. I really don't think there are that many box equipped Buicks out there....what maybe 20? Seems like there needs to be a Pro 1 and a Pro 2. (no boxes) Pro 1 11.49 and quicker Pro 2 11.50 and slower Super Pro 11.49 and quicker (boxes allowed) Even like this Pro 2 will probably have the most cars..... Bruce
