Huh, I guess you can do that after all......

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rant:

John, can't you KEEP anything to yourself, you know that I already have one don't you. :Brow:

 

TOO LATE! There is about 2 or 3 whiners on here that don't need Bob to do that.

 

Of course not.The rules are NHRA specs. I understand. If you want an nhra spec engine,build it.If you want factory compression,factory cam,fine.There is not enough time or prize money to devote to a really thorough tech.I also do think you need a certain amount of cars for the event to continue,and prosper.

 

Dorothy, you're not in Glendora,CA any more...

In case anyone forgot, THIS IS NOT THE NHRA. What the NHRA does/doesn't check in the tear down barn is THEIR BUSINESS...the only attachment to the NHRA that the Pure Stock Drags has is simply stated in the rules: "We will be using the NHRA tech bulletins for specifications only". Simple as that, "specifications only". If someone is inclined to run at an NHRA event, then by all means, do just that...pick your nearest NHRA event and go crazy. But, as a guy who has driven 750 miles *each way* to the Pure Stock Drags for the past 11 years, I implore you, please don't turn this into an NHRA event.

Again, THIS IS NOT THE NHRA. Let them keep their "rules & policies hand book", we don't need it in Stanton...the association between the NHRA and the Pure Stock Drags begins/ends with the engine specifications listed on the NHRA web site.

This is the *exact* reason I personally voted for factory/advertised specs back in '01 when I agreed to be among the first 6 to certify. But we all know how *that* worked out...

 

well so much for they won't do anything, Dan called us about a month ago and said that we are not invited to the race this year unless we replace the 1cc domed pistons in the Firebird with flat tops. He didn't care that we passed the whistler compression test.

 

First of all I've been a long time spectator of the Pure Stock Drags. 1996 to 2009. And only because of heath reasons I don't race anymore. I like to ask you guys one question. What and the hell is the matter with all you Pure Stock Racers. Are you trying to ruin one of the best annual muscle car events of the season. Many of us go to this event every year. And every year we got to put up with this kind of bull ****. Enough is enough!!!! I've watched you guys in the back of the pack go quicker every year. Hell, I can remember when racers were totally happy if their car turned a high thirteen. If you racers think it looks cool from the stands that your running these mid eleven et's your wrong. I've listened to the comments that are made in the stands, especially after a 1968 Firebird turns high elevens. Yea! that represents the car as it was back in the hey day. And then there's the Corvette's. They have such a Power to Weight advantage it's not even fare to the steel bodied cars. I bet if you added 300/400 lbs to one of those L-88 Corvettes they would see the tail lights of that Hemi Cuda. But who really gives a ****. That's what I'm saying. It's 2010 people. I'm a Buick enthusiast and I except that they didn't build the fastest muscle car during the hey day. Just get over it. You guys got to be driving the organizers of this great event crazy. I sense, that one day soon there won't be a Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Race. It will be a sad day for me and many others when that happens.

Big Al

 

Its ok Rick.I have been racing every year since 97? and i have never been invited.I just show up:TU:

 

folks, I don't want the race to leave either. Some things are broke and need to be fixed. " Run what ya brung " isn't what this was about. There was no problem enforcing rules in 2001 , I don't understand why it's so hard to now. It didn't hurt the event then ,I don't think it would now.
Enforce the rules we have now -No new ones are needed.
And if all your here for is the party -and you don't care what happens to the race. well we can do that anywhere.

I'm sorry if some of you are offended by this stuff. I know I get emotional about this stuff, ( it's kindda hard not to when you have people PMing you stirring you up and calling you egging you on) but it's because I truly love this event. Since the begining , I did nothing but defend it and tell people how great it was. And how we certify ,to prove were stock. (Hell ,we had guys that certified every year ) I just don't like the direction the last few years. Now people are going Light years faster and NO ONE will certify. Because they feel they don't have to.
Like the other guy said about the comments in the stands. No one believes there stock or even stockish anymore. Because they no longer are.

PS -Rick
I like how you quoted me and not the guy I was responding to that said it...uzzled:

 

I just wish everyone would take a step back and look at this thread for what it is, an attempt to save the race.... not ruin it.

when one guy, who happens to show up with the most horse power, gets to pick his compression while everyone else has to live by the published NHRA Blueprint specs ...... it gets a little old, and a little bitter to guys who have built it right, because it throws the cheater blanket over everyone.

I thought the year Terry tore down in the Stanton pits and handed over the camshaft would have been great, but then the rumors just moved to the next item on the list of all his cheater parts. Now I hear he installed a lightweight wife in the car......

It's a no win situation and I don't want it to go the way of NMCA and all the other grass roots racing series.

No one likes the cheaters, but some like the discussion of cheaters even less, fans do not want to watch the cars if they think they are cheating, new guys are convinced they have to cheat just to enter a car and not be embarrassed, legit guys find themselves needing to defend their cars from accusations that 'everyone is cheating' and guys who feel they are being cheated feel they don't have a forum to protest.

So guys end up on the phone and on the internet, it will stay that way until it gets to the point where cars that are legit and built to spec either stop coming, or are rebuilt under 'creative' rule reading, or they get uninvited because the drivers are not worth the $100.00 entry fee.

I feel really bad for Dan and Bob having to referee us like a bunch of U8 soccer kids trying to pick the ball up and run with it. The rules are clear, build your car to the rules, and if you want to run at the front of the pack, be legal, it's much cooler that way, even if you are not as fast as the next guy.

 

No lightweight cranks, connecting rods, or pistons allowed. Pistons must be of the original design for the year and horsepower claimed. Replacement forged pistons are allowed as long as they do not increase compression. Torque straps are allowed. No after-market blocks allowed


I just Got the email anouncing the 2010 pure stock drags and opened it up to look at the rules. The above statement is cut and dry, it says nowhere in the rules anything about nhra specs, it is clear to me , forged pistons are allowed as long as they do not INCREASE COMPRESSION!! i DO NOT KNOW IF THIS HAS CHANGED SINCE LAST YEAR, but do not think so. If I read this right, then all cars should be running at the advertised compression that they left the factory with?? If i wanted to read into the statement, could i use cast pistons and raise my compression? This is where you get into the spirit of the rules.

NOW I AM DONE!!

 

if you can get more compression out of a cast piston that is the exact same configuration as the original design........... :error:

 

Tim, how many cars do you feel are legal to the letter of the rules pecentage wise?

Why would anyone certify? Why do that to yourself? Why prove you are legal when the guy you are racing won't? For what... all the money? Prizes? What?

This puts a huge burdon on Dan and Bob and again for what? Do they get rewarded in any way to run a clean race? When they can sleep at night knowing 100% of the racers are on the up and up what do they get? Anything more than they would have gotten anyway?

Look at Dudek, rips his head off and says look! Look at anything you want! Buttons it up and runs the same number. You think that would be enough? No, Who picked the side in which he took the head off? Still a big fat cheater. Right? Sure why not? As long as the doubt is there. He has done more than anyone else to prove he is legit. He is rewarded with more BS rumors. (I use Dave as a example only as to not throw any stones at any of the sensitive pure stock racers)

Look how silly it is? When your insulation pad isn't on your firewall. You are a big fat cheater. A perfect example of "If I look I'm gonna find something". I think any of us could find some little infraction with each others car don't you think? At the end of the day what does it really matter?

Of the 4 cars teched at Martin Tim, were any of them "spotless clean"? How many cars would you have to tech to find the first "spotless one"? If we took your advice and moved those cars to FAST when would we find our first real pure stocker and how fast would it be?

Yet this thread is only about one guys dome volume that may or may not be within spec. We really don't know. All we think we know is that we tested a oil contaminated cylinder and got a reading that was higher than we thought it should be. While you have assured me Tim that you looked in the cylinder and didn't see any of the oil that would have certainly leaked in when the spark plug was removed I have trouble with that. I own the same equiptment and I don't feel you would be able to see oil that has found it's way to the top ring on a hemi engine.This engine is not like any other.It is not like the oil would puddle on the top of the piston. Did this engine not smoke when restarted? Gravity works on oil too right? If I were to drip oil onto the top of a ball would it not run to the bottom? The oil was certainly there so you can't deny that it has to account for some degree of compession increase. How much is the question I guess?

It looks like I'm defending a big cheater because I drive and collect Chrysler products. Well I'm not, I don't know anymore about Bobs engine than you do. Alot of times when a rumor hits the FAST scene I ask myself "What do I really know about it"? Sometimes you can walk right up to a car and see something jump right out at you,sometimes you have no way of ever knowing. And that is the way it is, no different then a guy that takes drugs and throws a baseball. That is the nature of competition happens everyday everywhere.

I don't think the race will go away while it is still profitable and I don't think everyone is going think of this race on same level.

 

Tim, I think you and especially Donny are are losing sight of what YOUR role in this race is. Its called a participant. Not an organizer of the event. Until you set up your own event and run it the way YOU want, let the two guys that run things do it their own way and in their own time. Saying there are a bunch of cheaters and nobody does anything about it is insulting to the organizers of the event that very unselfishly provided a place for all of us to have a good time. This has become a family event for you, me and many others. Want to ruin everyones good time? If it bothers you where things have gone, maybe you are the one that needs a new place to play.

As far as getting pm's and phone calls egging you on, I know who the main instigator is on this forum. Heck, he is on every forum waving this flag and looking very dumb doing it. Care to take a guess who it is? I thought you were smarter than to lower yourself to that level.

 

I could not have said it better. Thank You, Ken. :beer

Have Dan or Bob asked for help in "saving" this event? o No:

 

I can't believe what I am reading here! A techically challenged PARTICIPANT telling how engines should be built and who should run their car at an event that he has ABSOLUTLY NO PART in running. IT IS UP TO THE ORGANIZERS TO TECH CARS TO THEIR LIKING, NOT TO YOUR LIKING. Don't you have enough troubles keeping your own car running right without worrying about ANYBODY elses? Since when did this become The Donny Brass Drags?

The only soccer kid that needs refereeing is you! Give it a rest, PERMANENTLY! If you don't like the way things are run, stay home. Things will be much more peaceful that way. If you have a problem with this, see me at Martin. I am ALOT MORE convincing face to face.

 

"Of the 4 cars teched at Martin Tim, were any of them "spotless clean"? How many cars would you have to tech to find the first "spotless one"? If we took your advice and moved those cars to FAST when would we find our first real pure stocker and how fast would it be?"

Tom ,I don't want to get into this again but I will clarify this.
Pete-Bob-Dan -- had us check compression,spring pressure, and a visual inspection of the piston(VIA Bore scope) Not a full -witch hunt inspection.
Springs- 1st car- jimmy spring pressure 125 lbs- terry spring pressure 135ibs -Bob K could not check wrong checker(shafts)- rick -185lbs
compression- jimmy .3 under max- terry .2 under max- rick right on-bob-1.2 over
visual- all 4 had domes -1 not allowed to have them
converter inspection- all within limits. At that time Dan and pete would of made the decision to bounce 2 cars not 4. So don't say all 4 should of.

As for Bob's I said " Bk's was not some oil burning worn out valve guide piece of junk.from my visual inspection. If you wish I will post the PM response your talking about.

You are right Ken - I will no longer let mr Cannon get to me. And I have considered moving on. I was asked to help inspect that day , and wish I had told them NO !

 

Very good posts by Tom,and Ken. If you are allowed to run NHRA specs as a guideline(which are very generous to some engines),what difference does it make if you run a slight dome,or cut and mill the crap out of anything? I have done it both ways,cars ran almost identical.My cars will never be the quickest,and i dont care.I race for fun,and i have fun! I think most of the fastest cars can pass tech,and most have certified. I dont think anybody certified last year.What does that mean?You wil NEVER,and i mean NEVER,go to a race,and think,"Wow,i cant believe nobody is cheating".I love Tims passion,and agree with alot of what he says,but i dont think anything is broke,its just racing,and regardless of what type of racing it is,cars get faster every year.Just the way it is.

 

:gp: Ditto that!

 

Tim, you have a pm. The problem here is NOT Mr. Cannon. Its Mr. Brass!!!!

 

Well thank god we have identified the problem............