Post your 11/12 second 455 combos!

Did you try calling pro torque for a converter?? They're right here on long island and make some killer pieces.

 

60 Foot time calculator....http://www.wallaceracing.com/calc60ft.php

 

Chris, I think the calculator is fairly close. All to often people will use their BEST 60 foot or BEST time to do calculations instead of using an average. For my 8.06 it shows I should go 1.120 and I have gone a 1.11 and 1.10. At 8.25 I am typically in the 1.14s. The calculator shows 1.146 for an ET of 8.25. Certainly track conditions can vary the times but it is fairly accurate.

There is a reason why we do not race dyno's or flow benches! For Larry's ET of 11.67 it shows a 60 foot time of 1.622. I would say that is pretty close. Especially when you factor in that Larry's car is a street car, not an all out race car.

So... what do you guys think of running the TA210S in an engine that has a compression ratio of 10.2:1 with a .041 gasket or 10.5:1 with a .027. gasket? It is 464 CID, with Stg 3 cylinder heads that have 1.65 TA rocker arms.


210S
Lift with TA ROLLERS 1.60 RATIO: IN: .528 EXH: .528
Dur AT .050 IN: 248 EXH: 254
ADVERTISED Dur IN: 288 EXH: 298
LOBE CENTER: 110
POWER RANGE: 3000-6000

or 210SHL
Lift with TA ROLLERS 1.60 RATIO: IN: .567" EXH: .565
Dur AT .050 IN: 248 EXH: 254
ADVERTISED IN: 288 EXH: 298
LOBE CENTER: 110
POWER RANGE: 3000-6000

Thanks...

 

The 8.20s is average for my car.

I guess my point is... If I had a customer that was going in the 11.60s with a 1.62 60 foot time, I would not recommend that he or she go out and spend $1000 on a torque converter. The 60 foot and et line up for this combination. If the 60 foot time was a 1.7+ then it may be worth the extra cost. If you think the ET is off for the amount of HP, I would look at other variables first. Rotating weight on street cars can vary greatly and severely effect overall ET.

I have viewed this thread over and over again to get ideas for my current build. Having never built a Buick street car before there is a great deal of quality information in this thread. Thanks to all who have added information!

 

Hi John,

Don't you think 60 ft time and ET are a cause/effect relationship?

Because he runs mid 1.6 60't times, is why he runs 11.60's... In fact, in Buick land, that's screaming down the track. I used to run the same weight and body style (read aero) that he does, but it took very low 1.5 60' times to run mid 11's. Because I had around 80 less HP than he does. My 260cfm iron head 462 had it's tongue out at 900 ft.

If I had Larry's motor in that optimized drag race car, it would have run easy mid 10's.

I agree, he should not go out and spend $1k on a street torque converter.. folks that do that are simply making someone wealthy.

My billet cover 9.5" is $665...:laugh:

But seriously.. I don't think this is what Larry should do.. he does not need to prove anything, to anybody. His car runs mid 11's, and gets 14mpg and can be driven anywhere, comfortably.

I would support his decision to go with a smaller converter, to try it, hell, I might just let him borrow one.

But there is nothing "wrong" with his car. Or his engine. or my dyno for that matter...

One of my other customers out there has chimed in on this thread-- pro tour GSX- I have built and tested two different versions of the motor in his car.. the first, a very basic mild port STG 2 with a small cam...

he ran 11.30's at 121mph with it, in a 3.42 geared 3700 lbs GS. That motor had 510 HP/557TQ, I tested it myself.

Same dyno as Larry's motor.

That car is 500 lbs lighter than Larry, and has one of my 9.5" converters. It's a better drag strip package. He does an exceptional job putting what he has in power to work.


Earlier you stated that we don't race dynos, or flow benches. WE also don't race engines.

We race cars.. every time I see someone say "it should be faster if it has X hp", I just have to laugh.

It just is not that simple.

JW

 

Hey John
If you're looking for a milder TA solid,I have a new 112S sitting here.
Looks like that Goat is coming along real well,can't wait to see it.
gary

 

Jim,

I agree 100% with you! Which is my point exactly. I have seen cars with 800 HP go 8.90 and have seen similar cars with 800 HP go 8.50s. It is more about the car and how it is set up. Rotating weight and weight transfer are two critical areas that can effect ET.

Again.. I agree 100% that ET and 60 foot are directly related. So, if the ET and 60 foot are in line then I would not be looking at a converter change. Now, if the % slip is way off then yes, change the converter. Street drivability is SOO important for a street car. Raising the stall will lower ET but will hurt street drivability. There are many comprimises when building a street strip car. In specific, rear gear for highway driving!!!

I am trying to stick up for Larry and his ride. It is one of my favorite street cars that runs very well. Best part is, he actually drives it on the street!!! I am hoping to do the same with mine. If I can get 11.60 out of it and be able to take a 2 hour ride, would make me very happy!!

Here.. let me help.. Larry.. cut the weight out of the car, go to a 4.56 gear, drop the overdrive trans, go with a 4000 stall converter, change the front control arm bushings and springs, move the battery to the back of the car and go to a fiberglass hood. OHHH.. and drop the muffler system. I am sure if he does this his car will ET the way it is supposed to! Just kidding of course!

Guys... I am in no way trying to ruffle any feathers. I am just saying there is more than dyno numbers, flow benches, calculators, and street drivability involved with these 11 and 12 second combos. I have to remind my dad everyday that we are NOT trying to build a race car. Therefor, do not expect to run 10.90s with this Buick Apollo.

Jim, $665 is a decent price for a converter. There is a shop locally that Gary Paine and a few others have been using that have a great price also. Low cost options that work are great for the consumer!!

 

Those are DOT tires on the back of that gold car??:grin: That car has a similar stance to Gary Kubisch's street car.

The definition of street would certainly come into question in this debate!

It is very cold outside tonight so I put all of the 11 and 12 second combos into a spreadsheet. When the data is looked at in spreadsheet form it is interesting to see many of the similarities in the combos and ETs. Anyone know how to post an Excel spreadsheet to this thread?

 

Chris,-- I always talk in corrected HP numbers, as does everyone else in the industry.

Here is the picture of the new torque converters





I may have said "billet" cover earlier... I meant to say "forged cover" which is what these have. If you have over 1500 HP, then you might want to worry about billet vs forged, otherwise not so much. Total waste of money for a billet cover in a real street car.


As far as Dave's car goes.. Larry's car could be just like that.. all he has to do is install a converter like the above at 4500+ stall ,lose the GV, lose a bunch of other stuff for the rest of the two hundred pound difference, install 410 gears, loosen up the front suspension, install drag front and rear shocks, slicks, ect ect..

And then he can take it to Cecil, have somebody take a bunch of pictures with it up in the air, running 10's... ohh look at me... yada yada yada..and then...

Put it on a trailer for the ride home.

As I would assume Dave, and everyone else who has a drag car does. I highly doubt he drove it 2 hrs there, and 2 hrs home on the expressway, and got 14mpg doing it.

Apples and oranges.

Lisc plates and insurance a real street car does not make.

ET and mph, in heavy cars like these, are directly related to 60ft times. While my 3000 lbs Regal could come off the stop at 4 seconds out, and still run within 1-2 mph of the full throttle mph, that is absolutely not true of non-optimized heavy cars. We used to lose 4 or 5 mph with the 4100 lbs GS on the stop.

JW

 

I wanted a red one Jim. They go faster
Cheers

 

Simple question.

What size, and stall speed is the converter in that car.

And I am sure he drove it 150 miles home with the slicks on it..

Please...

JW

---------- Post added at 12:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:33 PM ----------

Nope.. red ones cost extra... :laugh::grin:

JW

 

Oh, come on now... tell us the full specs of the car... that attitude is BS, and you know it.

You keep saying they are so similar, but I have a pretty good idea what it takes in cam spec to make 595 HP with a flat tappet, and what it takes in converter to stand a 3900 lbs gs on end.

Neither of those requirements lend themselves to 'street cars'.



JW

 

Are you the thread police now?

I changed my mind, was going to just boot the last few posts, it's plain that you won't engage in a technical discussion.

Saying that I am taking it personally is really funny. Your kinda the king of that deal.

Now, if you can have a technical discussion, what are the cam and converter specs on the car your saying is "very similar" to Larry's car.

JW

 

still no answer

ou:

---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 PM ----------

Hey Jason... we do what we can to entertain the troops..

If you can't sit and watch two builders bench racing, then what good are these boards anyway?

No one takes this stuff too seriously.. I hope.

 

... more like "Kiss my Grits"

Besides, Larry and I both know The Brilliant Red Barchetta would roast "The Doody Brown Old Mans' Car" every time .. until Jim gave him that silver bullet

Hey Larry - I never noticed before but your Schnozz is hanging over the white line in that picture. Thats a pretty serious traffic violation there Budski :eek2:

Street car - many definitions. Some think taking the parachute off the back and re-installing the wiper transmission makes it a street car. Some think driving it local is ok, but forget about highway driving ..

To me, the definition has always meant

1) I can cruise an hour .. a day .. or take a month long road trip at highway speeds and not have to worry one bit.

2) Look reasonably stock from the outside (hood down)

3) go as fast as possible while adhering to #1 and #2